Captured P-47 - Beetle

[chuckschmitz]

can you post photo 5 from top as a separate photo? Thanks.

chuck

[chuckschmitz]

So Alex only the original white band in red and then later painted yellow?

[sirbob]

I'm in partial agreement with harrison 987 in post #5, who wrote

"The entire cowl was painted Yellow. 100%
No stripes on tail"

But I can see yellow cowling, AND yellow under wing tips and rudder in this selection of photos.

[Modeldad]

Clearly the aircraft was for all intents and purposes repainted by the Luftwaffe. Green Farbton 71?

When captured it would have had white IFF bands on cowl and empennage and oversized national marking under both wings. The cowl band would have been 24 inches, so the remnants under the nose art is what is left.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Modeldad

At the time of capture, the aircraft would have been marked only with the white IFF marking on nose and empennage. It would not have have had a colored cowl or rudder.

Interestingly, the 355 FG assigned the 358 FS yellow for cowl and rudder. But this was done after march '44 and applied only to the P-51s which the unit received in March of '44.

The cowl does look a different tone than the yellow prop tips, but that may be due to the different yellows.

The red/blue and Yellow squadron markings replaced the all white spinner and cowl band of the 355th FG in November 1944.

[chuckschmitz]

Does indeed look like yellow on the bottom of the wing tips.

[Alex Smart]

Hello all,
To start with those white I'd markings.
These markings were applied in the UK as a result of the suggestion that the Tbolt would perhaps be misidentified as a FW 190.
Markus were applied from Mid 1943.
So I would now suggest that "Beetle" 42-22490 'YF-U' wore these markings when captured.
It is suggested in a post in the LEMB somewhere, that she did not have these markings then.
However if you look at the picture of the wrecked tail of Woerz's ' YF-Y' 42-75045 which crash landed on return from the operation his Tbolt does have the white markings,so it was perhaps the norm at the time in the Squadron and perhaps across the board.

If I recall there was way back an article in "Fly Past" that gave the story and had pictures of the Tbolts of the 355thlost that day(November 7th 1943).
Kossack's 'YF-X' 42-8477 and Watson's 'YF-Z' 42-8629.
"Alabama Bound" 'OS-L' which collided with "On the Ball" 'OS-Q' became Luftwaffe "8+6" iirc.

The National markings(Star& Bars) were at the time blue and white,but it is not known by me at this time if the earlier red outline was completely out of use or if some a/c still wore the red outline.

Wing Star and Bars would most likely be the of the large type as opposed to the earlier smaller kind.

The so called red and/or yellow nose marking applied by the Luftwaffe. Could this be either one or other with difference seen due to the type of film used and state of light when photo was taken ? this is well known with regard to RAF roundels iirc.

Also when the a/c was repainted for the propaganda film the colours would have been of the original unless they had acquired captured British/American supplies.

At some stage the rudder seems to have been painted in a similar colour to the colour on the engine cowling, perhaps it was at that time that the undersides of the outer wing were also painted, so I expect the colour to have been a Luftwaffe yellow. Maybe the codes 'YF-U' were also reapplied at this time in the same colour ?

Enough to mull over for now.
Sun is shinning so I'm off for a cool drink and chock ice.

Alex

[Alex Smart]

Just to add to this 'YF-U'.
'YF-U' 42-8631 was lost on the 29th November 1943, pilot became a POW.MACR 1284.
Same day 'YF-L' "Slugger" 42-22484 was lost ,its pilot also became a POW. MACR 1285.
Another 'YF-U' was lost from the 355th FG on the 30th December 1943,pilot however was killed on this occasion, MACR 1867.Also that day 'YF-M' 42-8526 was also lost, again pilot was killed, MACR 1868.
Alex

[Modeldad]

Yes, it was late October when the 355th FG began to use squadron colors on the rudder and nose.

The white IFF bands on the cowl and empennage came into use in the 8th AF at the end of February 1943. Not limited to Squadron or Fighter Group. Also oversized national marking (55" or 60") would have been applied under both wings.

The red surround on US national marking was from 29 June 1943 to 17 September 1943.

Had ortho film been used, red would be nearly black and yellow a dark gray.