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  #1  
Old 13th December 2016, 19:43
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B-17E 41-2656 "Chief Seattle"

When "Chief Seattle" was shot down over Rabaul August 14, 1942 would she still have had U.S. ARMY on the underside of the wings or would it have been painted over by that time?

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James Sontag
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Old 14th December 2016, 13:37
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Re: B-17E 41-2656 "Chief Seattle"

James The US ARMY under wings was ordered removed by T/O 07-1-1B Aug. 15 1942 so would certainly still have it marked on. Incidentally it was directed to be Insignia Blue ( as were other markings, warnings etc. on Neutral Grey) rather than Black. Lettering on OD were to be black.
Ordered removed from trainers Oct. 19 1942 by an amendment to Spec. 98-24105-Q, then from all camouflaged aircraft , only insignia to be marked below wings.
Nick
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Old 14th December 2016, 15:32
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B-17E 41-2656 "Chief Seattle"

Thank you very much Buckeye30. Wasn't sure how long into the War they had that underneath the wings.
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Old 14th December 2016, 21:40
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Re: B-17E 41-2656 "Chief Seattle"

James you are welcome. There is a nice colour photo of her here. Note underwing letters; the red centre on the insignia dates it post-May 1942 as it was ordered removed (in service) by Spec. 98-24102-K to be effected May 28. The equivalent Navy Spec. was 06230 ALNAV97/98, effective same date. In this case the directive was apparently carried out quickly unlike the order for the US ARMY.
The delay ( the latter was first suggested in May also) was because it had to go through Material Division and then added to the relavent Technical Order and obviously there were more pressing duties at that time. It was just CONFIRMED on Aug. 15.
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http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-17/41-2656.html
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Old 14th December 2016, 21:58
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B-17E 41-2656 "Chief Seattle"

Nick, thank VERY much again, Nick. She wasn't in theater very long. I'm at work, but if I remember correctly she she came in in either late July or early August 1942, and was lost on her second mission. HK Models just released a 1/32 scale B-17E/F and the markings for the E are "Chief Seattle", and I wasn't sure about the U.S. ARMY underneath the wings still by that time in the War. Trying to gain as much knowledge on B-17's in the Pacific as they do not get the attention as the B-17's in Europe.

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Old 15th December 2016, 14:04
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Re: B-17E 41-2656 "Chief Seattle"

She went to the 43BG Aug. 5 then back to the 19BG next day. By that time the red should have been painted out in the insignia as aircrews certainly believed it could be confused with the Jap sun.
Regarding the lettering underwing, the 97BG B-17Es which flew the first Eighth AF mission Aug. 17 to France still had US ARMY there.
Nick
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Old 15th December 2016, 17:50
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B-17E 41-2656 "Chief Seattle"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye30 View Post
She went to the 43BG Aug. 5 then back to the 19BG next day. By that time the red should have been painted out in the insignia as aircrews certainly believed it could be confused with the Jap sun.
Regarding the lettering underwing, the 97BG B-17Es which flew the first Eighth AF mission Aug. 17 to France still had US ARMY there.
Nick
Thanks so much again, Nick. I really appreciate your information. I had not realized that the first 8th Air Force mission to Rouen August 17, 1942 that the 97th BG B-17E's had U.S. ARMY painted underneath the wings. Maybe I just hadn't noticed before.

"Chief Seattle" sure wasn't in theater long at all before she went down. Nick, do you have the book Ken's Men Volume 1 The B-17 Era by Lawrence Hickey, Steve Birdsall, and others? I can't put it down and the photos and research in that book is mind blowing.

James
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Old 16th December 2016, 13:47
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Re: B-17E 41-2656 "Chief Seattle"

James....no havn't got the 43rd book, most of my histories are Eighth AF fighter groups. If you are interested in the Pacific you might like these from my old markings / camouflage file , I used to do a lot of drawing before my eyes started to wear out.
If you don't know it you should look at Mark's super site at
www.pacificvictoryroll.com
Regards
Nick
Attached Images
File Type: jpg b24-7th.jpg (161.5 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg p61-7th.jpg (154.0 KB, 17 views)
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Old 16th December 2016, 16:43
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B-17E 41-2656 "Chief Seattle"

Nick, I highly recommend the Ken's Men book. I too have some 8th Air Force histories, Unit,s etc. My main interest in the 8th is their missions from August 1942 - May 1943. Then again, I love the B-17E/F. It doesn't seem that there is that much out there on the early days/missions of the 8th. Maybe I'm wrong.

The attachments, are those your drawings? Thanks also for the link to Pacific Victory Roll. I have not seen or heard of that site before.

James
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Old 18th December 2016, 17:06
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Re: B-17E 41-2656 "Chief Seattle"

James......I did the drawings for my files 30 years ago; not good quality here as there's a limit on size.
I found a copy of "Target Germany" ( VIII BC first year over Europe 17 Aug. 1942--17 Aug. 1943) in a second-hand bookshop about the same time, obviously in 100 pages only a general overview.
You might like to send a PM with your e-mail address ?
Regards
Nick
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