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  #21  
Old 2nd April 2017, 14:56
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Hello Johannes & Michel,

thanks for your fascinating posts.
Interestingly, the following records were all won with the Fw 190, all in JG54 and all in 1943:
- Rudorffer's most kills in one mission (6Nov)
- Lang's most kills in one day (3Nov)
- Lang's most kills in one month (October)
- Nowotny most kills in one year
- Scheel's best kill per missions ratio

Cheers,

Michael
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  #22  
Old 2nd April 2017, 19:22
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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Top ace of the calendar year

Hi guys

I have Emil Lang with 18 victories claimed on 3 November 1943 (102-119) as the highest scoring ace in a day for whatever it is worth.

Horrido!

Leo
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  #23  
Old 2nd April 2017, 20:47
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Hello,

I found him with 18 on 3Nov43, too.
http://www.luftwaffe.cz/lang.html
However, the 9th kill of the day is without further info.

Michael
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  #24  
Old 2nd April 2017, 22:30
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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Top ace of the calendar year

Hi Michael

The missing victory in the Tony Wood list was an Il-2 claimed at 14:17 north of Wyschgorod as his 112th victory according to Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe Teil 12/III by Prien, Stemmer, Rodeike and Bock. I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo
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  #25  
Old 3rd April 2017, 07:08
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Hi Guys

Regarding Scheel firstly I could find only seventy confirmations for him. Regarding the biggest day of 3rd November 1943, forty-four confirmations in the East for the Luftwaffe, of which thirty-four were for JG 54, of which twenty-nine for Lang's 5th Staffel.

Mikrofilm has a clearly written sub-section for JG 51 & JG 54. Lang's claims were:-

0931 hrs Il-2 1000 metres Nr.1
0932 hrs Il-2 200 metres Nr.2
0933 hrs Il-2 100 metres Nr.3
0935 hrs Jak-7 50 metres Nr.4
0936 hrs Il-2 100 metres Nr.5
0940 hrs Jak-7 100 metres Nr.6
0942 hrs Jak-7 50 metres Nr.7

1300 hrs Lavochkin-5 2500 metres Nr.8

1415 hrs Il-2 1000 metres Nr.9
1416 hrs Il-2 800 metres Nr.10
1420 hrs Lavochkin-5 800 metres Nr.11
1422 hrs Lavochkin-5 1000 metres Nr.12
1423 hrs Il-2 600 metres Nr.13
1445 hrs Jak-9 1500 metres Nr.14
1446 hrs Jak-9 1500 metres Nr.15
1448 hrs Il-2 1000 metres Nr.16
1449 hrs Il-2 1200 metres Nr.17

Norbert Hannig mentions the day in some detail in his autobiography, but it doesn't match-up. Perhaps there was also one unconfirmed claim. If I was to guess who the enabler was for his overclaiming I would have generally said Alfred Groß, however looking at this day I would say Reinhold Hoffmann, but maybe the whole staffel, maybe the whole Gruppe. But not nice to label them all the same........innocent until proven guilty!

Kind Regards

Johannes
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  #26  
Old 3rd April 2017, 12:54
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Hi Guys

Rattling on about Emil Lang. I have viewed many flubuch of late, and have been surprised about just how small a group they flew in, usually a Rotte or Schwarm. This being the case, it is likely that Lang would be flying in such a small group, therefore it wouldn't require the whole Staffel to be "overclaiming".

Other claimers of the day were, with Lang:-

Reinhold Hoffmann Il-2 at 0915 hrs 300 metres E Glebowka
Manfred Peschke Il-2 at 0916 hrs 250 metres NE Glebowka
Emil Lang Il-2 at 0931 hrs 1000 metres NE Ljutesh
Emil Lang Il-2 at 0932 hrs 200 metres NNE Ljutesh
Emil Lang Il-2 at 0933 hrs 100 metres NE Kasarowitschi
Emil Lang Jak-7 at 0935 hrs 50 metres NE Kasarpwitschi
Emil Lang Il-2 at 0936 hrs 100 metres NW Glebowka
Emil Lang Jak-7 at 0940 hrs 100 metres ENE Glebowka
Emil Lang Jak-7 at 0942 hrs 50 metres ENE Glebowka


Reinhold Hoffmann Jak-7 at 1109 hrs 2500 metres S Wzschgorod
Reinhold Hoffmann Jak-9 at 1113 hrs 3000 metres E Glebowka


Reinhold Hoffmann Il-2 at 1225 hrs 1000 metres
Alfred Groß Jak-7 at 1226 hrs 1000 metres
Reinhold Hoffmann Il-2 at 1228 hrs 1000 metres
Alfred Groß Jak-9 at 1231 hrs 20 metres
Reinhold Hoffmann Jak-9 at 1240 hrs 700 metes
Emil Lang Lavochkin-5 at 1300 hrs 2500 metres ENE Llistawizd


Emil Lang Il-2 at 1415 hrs 1000 metres E Moschtschum
Emil Lang Il-2 at 1416 hrs 800 metres N Moschtschum
Emil Lang Lavochkin-5 at 1420 hrs 800 metres NW Moschtschum
Emil Lang Lavochkin-5 at 1422 hrs 1000 metres N Kiew
Emil Lang Il-2 at 1423 hrs 600 metres W Walki
Reinhold Hoffmann Jak-9 at 1438 hrs 2000 metres W Walki
Emil Lang Jak-9 at 1445 hrs 1500 metres E Gostumel
Friedrich Zander Il-2 at 1445 hrs 1200 metres W Wzschgorod
Emil Lang Jak-9 at 1446 hrs 1500 metres W Wzschgorod
Emil Lang Il-2 at 1448 hrs 1000 metres E Gostumel
Emil Lang Il-2 at 1449 hrs 1200 metres N Mostrschtsche
Reinhold Hoffmann Jak-9 at 1449 hrs 2500 metres SE Ljutesh

I have slit them into four groups, four sorties based on the time duration they had, it looks like they were flying together, but not necessarily so.

Someone within our little club should have Russian losses/crash-sites who can help. I am assuming all crash-sites are feasible with the given information.

I looked at the internet profile on Lang, it appears to have added three "unknown" claims to boost his total to 173, 173 could be a myth duplicated over the decades until it's "cast in stone" like Rudorffer flying 1000 combat missions and baling-out so many times....there is no evidence to prove these "facts", actually his flugbuch proves he flew half this number of combats. Like the Hartmann claiming Mustangs it become "fact" until proven false.

Also the fourth and sixth Staffel of JG 54 were not claiming like the fifth, are we to believe that coincidently the fifth Staffel just had better pilots, like 7./JG 52 and especially like 9./JG 52.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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  #27  
Old 3rd April 2017, 13:34
Andrew Arthy Andrew Arthy is offline
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Hi Johannes,

Regarding your last sentence, 4./J.G. 54 was flying FW 190 fighter-bomber missions in the northern sector at the time, so it had very few opportunities to claim aerial victories, hence why it wasn't claiming like the 5. Staffel.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles
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  #28  
Old 3rd April 2017, 16:25
Maxim1 Maxim1 is offline
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Etgen View Post
The missing victory in the Tony Wood list was an Il-2 claimed at 14:17 north of Wyschgorod as his 112th victory according to Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe Teil 12/III by Prien, Stemmer, Rodeike and Bock. I hope this helps.
Hi Leo.

According to Tony Wood, Lang made that claim on the next day, 4 November 1943.
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  #29  
Old 3rd April 2017, 22:00
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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Top ace of the calendar year

Hi Maxim

Yes, that claim is recorded by Tony Wood as having been made on 4 November 1943. However, there are no other claims made by II./JG 54 on that date which is somewhat suspicious.

Horrido!

Leo
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  #30  
Old 4th April 2017, 08:48
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

OSPREY's "Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Aces of the Russian Front" by John Weal features the photo of a magazine cover of the "Berliner Illustrierte Zeitung". The headline about Emil Lang reads "Eighteen in one day - the return of the champion".

Cheers,

Michael
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