Yellow "noses" of Me 109? Who and Why?

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Hi
Yellow noses on Me 109 (who and why exactly yellow?)
Probably by the end of BoB (IX-XI 1940?) was introduced the yellow color on Me 109 (yellow cowlings and rudder).
I am wonder, who had invented this and spreaded this idea among LW units?
Why it was exacly yellow and not any kind of red? As you know red is more visible from the long distance then any others colors?

Thanks for any comments to this, I think, simple questions (not yet clear for me). :-(

Later also the yellow was used on Balkans war (April 1941 and on the beginning of Barbarossa).

PS
Reason of intriducing the yelllow is obvious - fast and better recognitions (own or enemy) for own crews (bombers, own fighters ect.).

Regards
Mirek Wawrzynski

[rob van den nieuwendijk]

Hello Mirek,


See info on thread starting 30 March 2005:

Hello,

There have been some postings regarding yellow markings on Me 109's. See an interesting note below - from KTB Befehlshaber der Sicherung der Nordsee.

7.4.41

1922 Jafü Deutsche Bucht teilt BSN, F.d.M. und F.d.V. Nord durch FS mit:”Sämtliche Jagdflugzeuge BF 109 sind mit einem gelben Erkennungsanstrich ringsherum bis an die Flügelwurzeln versehen. Tragfläche und Leitwerk sind nicht mehr besonders gekennzeichnet. Es wird gleichzeitig darauf aufmerksam gemacht, daß auch BF 109 ohne diese Anstrich z.B. als Überführungsflugzeug das Luftgaugebiet berühren können. Das Fehlen des Anstrichs darf daher nicht dazu führen, daß diese Flugzeuge als feindlich angesprochen werden.”

13.8.41 Erkennungsanstrich eigener Jagdflugzeuge:

0800 FT 0740/58 KlN von Gruppe Nord geht ein: “Kr.Kr. Alle. Ab sofort Erkennungsanstrich eigener Jagdflugzeuge 1) Unterseite Motorhaube gelb 2) ganz Propellernabe schwarz.”



This might explain some mysterious markings.

Best wishes,
Rob

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski

Hi
As you know red is more visible from the long distance then any others colors?

Mike: I am not knowledgable of light wave physics, but here in the US, several studies were done regarding the use of red and yellow for emergency vehicles, especially fire engines, and how to make them more visable to other drivers (we Americans have a bad habit of having collisions with them when they are on emergency runs). The studies clearly showed that yellow was more visible from short to longer distances. So, during the 1970/80s, many fire engines were ordered in yellow. However, both firemen and the public wanted them red, so the newer ones are reverting to red. However, ambulances are still yellow.

[Gustav]

Not very scientific but from experiences with R/C models a clean white is also highly visible as it reflects a lot of light, at least on sunny and clear days, this may be different on hazy days with less direct light. There were white markings also on BoB Emils but the majority were yellow. Probably this is because yellow was the better all weather marking?!

Just a thought.

[Graham Boak]

Red stays visible longer in fading light; however, as a comparatively dark colour, the yellow would provide more contrast with the camouflage.

In the UK some fire services changed to yellow from red, but because red appeared black in the sodium lights then common. Yellow was a much more obvious colour in the evening.

[Sergio Luis dos Santos]

Just for color information I remember years ago Mercedes-Benz or BMW, not sure now, did some testing on colors for safety. Better vision from long distance. They found a kind of fluorescent(?) orange was the most visible but doubt who would acquire a car in this color - but some interesting shades of green, yellow or orange were the must on BMW cars in 70´s...

Can someone confirm or correct "my memory"?

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Hi 2 all
thanks for some remarks concerning this isses, I would like to underline that we have in air warfare "Red Baron - von Rihtchofen", not any "Yellow Baron", :-)

It means that one guy in LW had made such conclusion, which was agains "holy aviation tradition" - let's pain our planes on yellow colors, which is better color then red one.
Why not red, some of them could say, we had in our army "Red Baron" and it was good and should be good in WW II. We did not want any yellow we only want red could say/add others. Strong supporters of "holy traditions".

Some of you have made quite interesting comments about 70-ties and paining on fire, testing cars. But we have the isses from about 30 years earlier (IX-XI 1940), where the first yellow/oragnes noses of Me 109 are seen flying hight over Britain, and later ect.

So, the painting by Germans the Me 109 in late 1940 was against "holy traditions" - remeber about "Red Baron"
They had to had some strong proofs that yellow is much more better then red one to broken "holy traditions".

PS
I can agree taht some resarch could proof in 70/80s that yellow is better one that red one but: How German did it make/proof it in 1940?
Nice question, :-)


Reagrds
Mirek W

[Six Nifty .50s]

Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski

Hi 2 all
thanks for some remarks concerning this isses, I would like to underline that we have in air warfare "Red Baron - von Rihtchofen", not any "Yellow Baron", :-)

It means that one guy in LW had made such conclusion, which was agains "holy aviation tradition" - let's pain our planes on yellow colors, which is better color then red one.
Why not red, some of them could say, we had in our army "Red Baron" and it was good and should be good in WW II. We did not want any yellow we only want red could say/add others. Strong supporters of "holy traditions".

Some of you have made quite interesting comments about 70-ties and paining on fire, testing cars. But we have the isses from about 30 years earlier (IX-XI 1940), where the first yellow/oragnes noses of Me 109 are seen flying hight over Britain, and later ect.

So, the painting by Germans the Me 109 in late 1940 was against "holy traditions" - remeber about "Red Baron"
They had to had some strong proofs that yellow is much more better then red one to broken "holy traditions".

PS
I can agree taht some resarch could proof in 70/80s that yellow is better one that red one but: How German did it make/proof it in 1940?
Nice question, :-)


Reagrds
Mirek W

The Germans certainly did not prove that in 1940. It was already known, long before that date, that yellow is more visible than red under most conditions. Notice that the life jackets and rubber rafts used by US Navy pilots were usually yellow, not red.

When I drive my car at night or in bad weather, I can see a yellow painted automobile long before I can identify a red one.

[odybvig]

The answer is quite simple:

The eye is most senitive for yellow colorwaves

Best
Olve Dybvig
Ophtometrist Msc

www.luftwaffe.no

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

"The eye is most senitive for yellow colorwaves"

Best
Olve Dybvig
Ophtometrist Msc

Hi
OK we know it now but how did they know it in 1940? You probably have not read whole post. The simple answer about colorwaves is now (2005) simple but who did prove/explain it in 1940?
Second what about holy tradition (Great Red Baron). Army is one of the conservative society.
BTW Do you suggest that this knowladge was well know in German medicine since 1940 or earlier?
But what about if the resaches where done by Jews in 20/30-ites in Germany, not done by pure Germans?

And second. How did the results of "medicine knowledge" where transfered to "military knowledge" breaking the usual traditional knowledge +habits - all in the past had used the red one, which is the best one" ect.

This is the point?

Regards
Mirek W

PS
In the 80-ties we had also in Warsaw, for several years, the taxies painted on Bahama-Yellow - between yellow and orange - specialy produced for city taxi, but again it was about 40 years after WW II nad some resarches done in 70/80-ties about eyes sensitives for color.