Calling on any Bf-110 Experten. Bf-110 armour?

[Koenig]

Hi all,

I was wondering if the question of Bf-110 cockpit armor has been discussed on this forum in detail before? If so please point me there, my searches did not reveal any. If not, please read on and dust off any books on the Bf 110 you may have!

I am posting here in the hope that by the end of the discussion, we will have sorted out exactly when, where, in what quantity, and on what models armor was installed in the Bf 110 series.

Simple internet searches and the coffee table type of World War II aircraft collection book seem to always state that armour was introduced with the Bf-110 C4 model. I have not been able to find a true source for this information however.

In reading my small collection of books on the Bf-110, I have found that even here there is conflicting information on when cockpit armour was introduced to the Bf-110 series.

For example:

In "Zerstorer: The Messerschmitt 110 and it's Units in 1940", written by VASCO, and CORNWELL, on page 242 it clearly states that the Bf 110 C4 included "provisions of armour protection for pilot and Bordfunker for the first time."

Rickard, J (14 March 2007), Messerschmitt Bf 110 C Cäsar, http://www.historyofwar.org/articles...s_bf_110C.html states: "The C-4 saw 9 mm armour added to protect the pilot."

This page: http://www.acepilots.com/german/bf110.html states: "the C-4 added about 500 lbs. of crew armor."

In contast, in "Messerschmitt Bf 110/Me 210/Me 410" by MANKAU and PETRICK, on page 176 it clearly states "Some aviation publications assert that the Bf 110 C-4 was the first variant to have armor reinforcement. This was not the case with new-built machines."

On page 200 it then states that "The Bf 110 E series was initially produced without armor protection for the crew. During the production run, however, cockpit armor to include an armoured windscreen made its way onto the assembly line....these measures were to be retroactively applied to all Bf 110 Es and could be installed in aircraft of the C and D series."

Furthermore, in looking at photographs of Bf 110's from the 1940 and 1941 era, it seems apparant that there does not appear to be any armoured windscreens or head rests for the pilot (which negates there being any head armor).

I will continue my search and thank anyone in advance for adding to this discussion!

Regards,

Koenig

[Andy Saunders]

I was involved in the recovery of a Me 110 lost on 7 October 1940 at Long Bredy, Dorset, (W.Nr 3418, a C-7) and can tell you that this aircraft was fitted with pilot's head armour. I will try to find a photo of it.

It may not help much, but a definite case of head armour protection on this C-7.

[ChrisS]

Hello Koenig

I found this in Wydawnictwo Militaria 114 Bf-110 Volume 2 on Page 25. This is for the G series.

I hope you find it useful.

Cheers

Chris

[Andy Saunders]

My recall is that the pilots head armour we found was significantly different to that in the illustration for the G. This is reliant on my memory from an event way back in 1976, but I am certain this was a single sheet of rounded-top steel plate and very similar, for example, to the Typhoon/Tempest pilots head armour if that makes sense?

[Koenig]

Thanks Andy for adding your first hand experience. It is interesting that the C7 you mentioned had that kind of head rest armor.

Chris, thanks also for that chart on the Bf 110 G armor. Haven't seen that one before.

In trying to pin down when armor was first introduced, I found this image on my hard drive...unfortunately I can't figure out where it is from (source) or if it is in fact for the Bf 110 C.

Attachment 3246

Still it is confusing as to why there is contradicting information in reputable books.

[ChrisS]

Originally Posted by Koenig

In trying to pin down when armor was first introduced, I found this image on my hard drive...unfortunately I can't figure out where it is from (source) or if it is in fact for the Bf 110 C.

I believe this image comes from the publication 'Vultee Aircraft Inc. Report number 260-28 Analysis of a Messerschmitt ME-110 (sic)' The aircraft I believe was an ZG 1 machine with an S9 code but I have no further information.

Cheers

Chris

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by ChrisS

I believe this image comes from the publication 'Vultee Aircraft Inc. Report number 260-28 Analysis of a Messerschmitt ME-110 (sic)' The aircraft I believe was an ZG 1 machine with an S9 code but I have no further information.

Cheers

Chris

That Vultee report concerns Bf 110 D-0/B, S9+CK, of 2./Erpr. Gr. 210. It did not have pilot or windscreen armour.

The problem for our original poster is that whereas pilot armour does feature on the 'E' series, it was retro-fitted to earlier series. So, it is impossible to state with any degree of certainty WHEN a particular variant/sub-variant was fitted with the armour. The retro fitment could happen when damaged airframes were being recycled through the repair factories, or by modification 'in the field'.

So, I do not believe there is a definite answer. You can only go with what you see in photographs of the time, and there were a multitude of abberations that did not fit the 'norm'. For example, you wanna see a 'B' variant with squared-off wingtips? Yeah, there's a photo. You wanna see a 'C' variant with rounded wingtips? Yeah, there's a piccie.

The above doesn't help much, I know, but I hope it does explain things a little.