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Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation after the Second World War.

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  #1  
Old 4th June 2007, 20:10
Horst Weber Horst Weber is offline
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Horst Weber
F-84 shot up on March 10th, 1953

Hi !

Can anyone give me the serial-number of the F-84, assigned to 36th FBW, 53rd FBS, which was shot down by a Chechoslowakian MIG-15 (S-102), piloted by Jaroslaw Sramek.

My point of interest is only the s/n of 1st Lt. Warren G. Brown' s
F-84, which was shot up that day.

Thank you very much !

Horst Weber
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  #2  
Old 29th June 2007, 21:52
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: F-84 shot up on March 10th, 1953

Hi,

Scramble book on US Mishaps 1950-2000 has only

No serial number given but an F-84E and has "Pilot ejected safely"

and for a fatal crash in the UK serial number 51-0917 an F-84G.

Alex
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  #3  
Old 2nd July 2007, 20:25
Horst Weber Horst Weber is offline
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Horst Weber
Re: F-84 shot up on March 10th, 1953

Godd afternoon Alex !

Thank you very much for your reply to my request. Fortunately, I have in my possession the quarterly reports of 36th FBW in 1953.

This particular event is reported in the official records of the Wing in sober terms, unless to give a s/n of the aircraft. The names and the units of the American Pilot as well as the Chechoslowakian are well known.

Is an identification (s/n) of the F-84 possible by an evaluation of the accident-report of that event or is it still classified ?

Thank you very much, Alex

Horst Weber
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  #4  
Old 2nd July 2007, 22:15
Michal Michal is offline
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Re: F-84 shot up on March 10th, 1953

Don´t have serial. Only know that plane belonged to 53rd FBS 36th FBW, base Fürstenfeldruck, piloted by 1st Lt. Warren G. A. Brown.

Shot down by S-102 (Czech built MiG-15), tactical number NO-37, belonged to 2. letka 5. letecký pluk (2nd Flight 5th Air Regiment), base Plzeň-Líně, piloted by poručík (lieutnant) Jaroslav Šrámek.

Hope this help

Michal
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  #5  
Old 3rd July 2007, 17:42
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: F-84 shot up on March 10th, 1953

Hi Horst,
You may be able to order the Air accident report or the Aircraft record card via this site www.aviationarchaeology.com
All the best, let us know how you get on.
Alex
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  #6  
Old 15th July 2007, 01:49
Horst Weber Horst Weber is offline
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Horst Weber
Re: F-84 shot up on March 10th, 1953

Michal and Alex !

Thank you very much for your replies. By the way and the sources, the whole case still "smells" like some sort of classification. I'll try it with your provided sources and then we see. Thanks again.

Horst Weber
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  #7  
Old 19th January 2008, 02:27
Horst Weber Horst Weber is offline
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Horst Weber
Re: F-84 shot up on March 10th, 1953

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Smart View Post
Hi Horst,
You may be able to order the Air accident report or the Aircraft record card via this site www.aviationarchaeology.com
All the best, let us know how you get on.
Alex
Happy New Year, Alex and Michal !

In the meantime, I received three aviationarchaeology accident reports, concerning USAFE accidents in my area from the 1950's. They are tremendous good and in a high quality. It is easily a pleasure to read in them and find out, what really happened.

Unfortunately, the incident of 10th March, 1953, when 53rd FS, 36th FBW
F-86, piloted by 1st. Lt. Warren Brown was shot down by Jaroslaw Sramek, is not available. There is no trace to the s/n of the aircraft.

Does anyone has an idea, why USAFE aircraft, which were shot up in Cold War by Warsaw Pact airpower in Europe are not released in Serial/no. even all other facts are public like unit, squadron and name of the pilot.

Thank you very much !

Horst Weber
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  #8  
Old 1st February 2008, 07:17
Qui-Gon62 Qui-Gon62 is offline
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Re: F-84 shot up on March 10th, 1953

Dear Horst,
as English is the language in this forum, I will stick to it. I have joined not too long ago and are interested in the same subject as you as in USAFE history in general.
The tail number of this particular Thunderjet is indeed still unknown. It could either be in the range of 49-21xx through 49-23xx as the 36th and 86th FBWs received 150 F-84Es from these production blocks in September 1950 under "Fox Able 3" or in the range 51-5xx through 51-6xx. A batch of FY 51 F-84Es was delivered in 1952 to compensate the high losses due to accidents. To make matters even more complicated, the 36th FBW operated a small number of ex-20 FBW F-84Gs in spring 1953 before converting to the F-86F from August (to the best of my knowledge). So, this is another possibility, if perhaps not very likely.
I have indexed many 1953 accident reports for Aviation Archeology including the relevant period (should be on their website soon). The shootdown is definitely not included in the accident reports from 10 March, but this is no exception as it was a combat loss, not an accident. All other combat losses (there were many in Korea) aren't included either. Although not answering the question, I hope this is helpful though.
Best wishes,
Gerhard

P.S. I would be interested in contacting you about the wing's quarterly records. Please drop me a note.
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  #9  
Old 5th February 2008, 18:45
Horst Weber Horst Weber is offline
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Horst Weber
Re: F-84 shot up on March 10th, 1953

Gerhard !

Thanks for the information. Indeed, I still have no idea, why this serial-number doesn`t show up in official documents, which are public-available, related to that incident.

Maybe some international standarts or diplomatic rules with an comfortable time-limit for the release could be the reason (99 years + 364 days e.g. ???). Perhaps, this mystery and the obvious backgrounds can be solved once.

Thanks again for your post and I'm going to contact you by PM.

Horst Weber
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