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Old 1st November 2010, 01:49
Martin Gleeson Martin Gleeson is offline
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British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940.

The losses of British second-line aircraft such as transports and liason craft have, as far as I know, not been fully listed before. I have attempted below to compile a first draft of such losses. If the records from that campaign are often poor for the combat losses then they are at least as bad for the second-line aircraft casualties. In my opinion all of these aircraft were being used to support front-line fighting units and the crews of the former were doing vital work for the war effort. To achieve a more complete view of the air war these losses deserve to be included in any work dealing with the campaign in the West, and one hopes they will not be excluded from the Eagles over Europe project. Many of the losses were as a direct result of German action and so would feature in Luftwaffe claims for aircraft shot down or destroyed/damaged on the ground. Some may not agree but I have included several aircraft which either crashed in England en route to France with supplies or were later written off in England as a consequence of damage through enemy action over France.
.
Briefly I have used many sources such as the Air-Britain serial registers, 'The Battle of France; Then and Now', 'Though Without Anger' by Colin Cummings, various magazine issues, several documents in The National Archives in London and not least of all many contributions on the TOCH, RAF Commands and LEMB websites.
.
It would be most welcome if colleagues can correct errors or add to the list. Over to you !
.
Martin Gleeson.
.
.
British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France September 1939 - June 1940.
.
Miles MAGISTERS.
L5917 21 AD Presumed lost in France June 1940.
L5918 Abingdon Presumed lost in France June 1940.
L5922 12 Sqn/21 AD Abandoned in France June 1940.
L5927 105 Sqn Abandoned in France May 1940.
L5942 218 Sqn Abandoned in France June 1940 (photo on E-Bay shows it as 'HA-C').
L8347 73 Sqn Damaged 24-9-1939, seemingly not repaired.
N3846 AASF Presumed lost in France May 1940.
P2382 HQ Flt. AASF Crashed 24-10-1939, pres. left in France.
P2383 218 Sqn Destroyed in air raid 23-5-1940.
P2394 103 Sqn Presumed lost in France May 1940.
P2434 1 Sqn No record after 26-3-1940, pres. lost in France May 1940.
P2435 AASF Lost in France May 1940.
P2438 AASF Lost in France May 1940.
P2497 87 Sqn Crashed during aerobatics 15-3-1940 (also TNA file AIR 35/138)
P2498 1 Sqn Damaged in flying accident March 1940, abandoned Chateau Bougon June 1940
P2508 79 Sqn Crashed during aerobatics 2-1-1940.
P2510 85 Sqn Lost in France May 1940.
P6343 607 Sqn Lost in France May 1940 (possibly 19-5-1940, but I cannot find the source)
P6351 73 Sqn Stuck in a field 5-6-1940 and abandoned.
P6458 81 Sqn Lost in France May 1940.
R1894 AASF Abandoned in France May 1940.
R1910 21 AD Abandoned in France June 1940.
R1911 21 AD Abandoned in France June 1940.
(One of the above must be the 88 Squadron Magister destroyed in a hangar at Mourmelon 10-5-1940)
.
Miles MASTERS.
N7545 615/87 Sqns Overturned on soft ground on landing at Merville 7-5-1940, later abandoned.
N7577 85 Sqn Abandoned in France June 1940.
N7578 87/607 Sqns Damaged 31-3-1940. Abandoned in France June 1940. (also AIR 35/138)
.
.
Miles MENTOR.
L4421
SF Abingdon Abandoned at Reims 16-5-1940.
.
Miles WHITNEY STRAIGHT.
W7422
(ex G-AEUY) Air Attache Paris Abandoned at Le Bourget June 1940.
.
DH 82 TIGER MOTHS.
K4250
81 Sqn Presumed lost in France May 1940.
N6799 81 Sqn / 51 Wing Lost in France June 1940 (also TNA file AIR 35/138)
N6801 81 Sqn Lost in France June 1940
N6838 81 Sqn Wrecked in crash landing during flight Le Bourget-Amiens 30-9-1939.
N6843 81 Sqn Damaged in start-up at Entrepagney 25-9-1939, later SOC 12-11-1939.
N6846 81 Sqn Presumed lost in France June 1940
N6949 81 Sqn Presumed lost in France June 1940
N9125 81 Sqn Presumed lost in France June 1940
N9159 81 Sqn Crashed on take-off Calais 25-4-1940 (also TNA file AIR 35/138)
N9433 81 Sqn Hit tree landing in France on communications flight 11-3-1940 (also AIR 35/138)
N9442 81 Sqn Presumed lost in France June 1940
N9448 81 Sqn Missing 20-5-1940, abandoned on French airfield (E-Bay photo)
R5017 CFF Lost in France June 1940
R5021 212 Sqn Presumed lost in France May 1940
R5032 CFF Lost in France June 1940
R5036 212 Sqn Crashed at St.-Maixime-Hautrive 16-5-1940.
.
DH 89 RAPIDES.
P1764
24 Sqn DBR during air raid at Coulommiers 16-5-1940 and abandoned.
P1765 24 Sqn Circumstances and dates unclear. Possibly damaged 5-5-1940 and later
. abandoned. (but A-B Serials notes SOC 4-4-1940).
W6423 24 Sqn ex G-ADNH or G-ADNN ?. Damaged by enemy action at Coulommiers 16-5-1940
. and abandoned.
W6424 24 Sqn ex G-AEAM. Force-landed St. Philbert, near Clisson on 23 (22nd ?)-2-1940 out of
. fuel. Hit a ditch. Abandoned at Bouguenais with 21 AD on 16(?)-5-1940.
W6457 24 Sqn ex G-AFSO. Destroyed by 3 Bf 110s on 31-5-1940 (ref. TNA file AIR 35/149) OR
. Engine failure during evacuation flight, F/L near Aneuil close to front line 31-5-1940.
X8505 24 Sqn ex G-AEXP. Damaged by German attack at St. Omer 21-5-1940, abandoned.
X8506 24 Sqn ex G-AFEO. Abandoned at Bricy, May or June 1940. Captured intact ?
X8508 24 Sqn ex G-AFAH. Damaged by German attack at Merville 21-5-1940, abandoned.
X9320 24 Sqn ex G-ACYM. Damaged landing at Moyenneville, near Pas de Calais 12-2-1940.
. Not repaired.
G-AEBW 24 Sqn Abandoned at Bordeaux, on evacuation 18-6-1940. Out of fuel.
G-AEPF 24 Sqn Abandoned at Bordeaux, on evacuation 18-6-1940.
.
DH 86 EXPRESS.
G-ADVK
__ Abandoned in Jersey, June 1940.
G-AEFH __ Abandoned at Bordeaux, on evacuation 18-6-1940.
G-AEWR __ Abandoned at Bordeaux, on evacuation 18-6-1940.
.
DH 84 DRAGON.
X9395
24 Sqn ex G-ACIU. Damaged on take off at Mourmelon 29-4-1940. Abandoned at Reims
. 16 May 1940.
.
Armstrong Whitworth AW 27 Ensign.
G-ADSX
'Ettrick' __ Destroyed in air raid on Le Bourget 1-6-1940.
G-ADSZ 'Elysian' __ Destroyed by strafing Bf 109s at Merville 23-5-1940.
G-ADTA 'Euryalus' __ Damaged 23-5-1940 over France by ground fire and attack by German
. aircraft. Force-landed at Lympne airfield in England. Parts from this
. Ensign were used to repair another Ensign. 'Euryalus' was not repaired
. and was eventually written off.
.
Avro ANSON.
N9611
59 Sqn Destroyed in air raid on Poix 19-5-1940.
.
Bristol Bombay.
L5813
271 Sqn Stalled on approach and crashed at Betheniville 11-5-1940.
L5853 271 Sqn Flew into rising ground at Hunter's Hill near Ruislip, England after take off on
. 29-5-1940. It was carrying ammunition to France.
.
Handley Page Harrow.
K6996
271 Sqn Damaged on French airfield 20-6-1940 during evacuation and abandoned.
. E-Bay photos show it after capture still sitting on its undercarriage.
.
Percival Q-6.
X9329
24 Sqn Presumed lost in France June 1940.
.
Percival Vega Gull III
P1751
24 Sqn DBR by enemy aircraft at Coulommiers 16-5-1940.
.
Supermarine Walrus.
L2312
15 Group Communications Flight Crashed on landing Keranov, Brittany 18-6-1940 during
. an 'intelligence mission'.
.
Douglas DC-3.
OO-AUI
271 or 24 Sqn ? Hit by flak near Calais 23-5-1940 and crash-landed near Arques.
.
Savoia SM 73P.
OO-AGS
271 or 24 Sqn ? Shot down by Bf 109s 23-5-1940 near Calais.
OO-AGZ 271 or 24 Sqn ? Strafed on Merville airfield 23-5-1940 by Bf 109s and abandoned.
.
Hawker Hart ?
Reputedly one example was captured on Merville airfield during May 1940. However I could not find a
suitable candidate for this loss in the Air-Britain serial registers, nor any other proof .
Source: A post on the LEMB website during 2005, based on a colour illustration in the old Profile
Number 57 on the Hart family.
.
Avro Rota / Cierva C-30 & C-40 Autogyros.
It has been suggested that several of these autogyros were lost or abandoned in France during May
or June 1940. However there seems to be no evidence to support this belief, either from the individual
histories in the Air-Britain serial registers, nor from photographs or published works.
Source: Raf Commands website, post during July 2010.
.
.
***********



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  #2  
Old 1st November 2010, 02:56
brewerjerry brewerjerry is offline
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Re: British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940.

Hi
I seem to remember having seen a captured percival Q6 photo somewhere,I will try to remember.
cheers
Jerry
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  #3  
Old 1st November 2010, 15:31
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940.

Hello Jerry,

Not sure if it is the same aircraft you remember, but Ed West previously posted an e-bay photo of a Luftwafe Q.6 on thread http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...5455#post75455
This was however ex-Lithuanian rather than RAF.

Regards,

Clint
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  #4  
Old 1st November 2010, 19:15
Rémi Baudru Rémi Baudru is offline
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Re: British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940.

Bonjour,

The Miles Magister R1910 was left intact at the end of june on the french military airfield of Toulouse Blagnac. Two month later it was still there.

One of the two Dragon rapide left on the airfield of Colommiers was set afire the 4 juin by the British when they left this airfield.
French witnesses said that this plane was usualy used by the British to carry the films from the lone reco spitfire which was based here (hidden in the sole hangar beetween the missions).

Regards.

RB
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  #5  
Old 2nd November 2010, 17:10
Martin Gleeson Martin Gleeson is offline
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Re: British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940.

Hallo,

Remi,
Thanks for those very interesting extra details. Are there any photos of R1910 showing squadron codes ? I am very surprised that it was abandoned so far south. Presumably heading for Marseilles ?

Regards,

Martin.
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  #6  
Old 3rd November 2010, 03:02
brewerjerry brewerjerry is offline
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brewerjerry
Re: British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musec04 View Post
Hello Jerry,

Not sure if it is the same aircraft you remember, but Ed West previously posted an e-bay photo of a Luftwafe Q.6 on thread http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...5455#post75455
This was however ex-Lithuanian rather than RAF.

Regards,

Clint
Hi
Not sure, I thought the photo I saw had RAF markings, but I am going by memory.
The link to the above thread doesn't quite explain why it has to be an ex lithuanian aircraft, and unfortunately ebay link has a dead photo link
cheers
Jerry
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  #7  
Old 3rd November 2010, 09:34
Bertrand H Bertrand H is offline
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Re: British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940.

Martin,

A nice print of Magister R1910 is in the archive of Service Historique de la Défense (ex-SHAA).

Aircraft is not still a wreck and this Magister is in front of large aircraft hangar.Could be Paris Le bourget or why not Toulouse.

HTH

bertrand
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  #8  
Old 4th November 2010, 03:02
Martin Gleeson Martin Gleeson is offline
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Re: British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940.

Jerry,

There is very nice information on the Lithuanian Rapides on the LEMB website. See the DH 89 Rapide thread in the 'Captured British Aircraft' section.

Bertrand,

Thanks for that information on R1910. Do you recall if the photo showed any unit markings ?

Regards and thanks once more,

Martin.
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  #9  
Old 4th November 2010, 04:18
brewerjerry brewerjerry is offline
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brewerjerry
Re: British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940.

Hi
I know wiki is not always the best of sources but.

Two Q.6s of the Lithuanian National Airline were impressed by the Soviet Air Forces in 1940.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percival_Petrel

which could make the aircraft an ex RAF one.

cheers
Jerry
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  #10  
Old 4th November 2010, 13:07
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
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Re: British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940.

P1764 24 Sqn DBR during air raid at Coulommiers 16-5-1940 and abandoned.
P1765 24 Sqn Circumstances and dates unclear. Possibly damaged 5-5-1940 and later
. abandoned. (but A-B Serials notes SOC 4-4-1940).
W6423 24 Sqn ex G-ADNH or G-ADNN ?. Damaged by enemy action at Coulommiers 16-5-1940
. and abandoned.
W6424 24 Sqn ex G-AEAM. Force-landed St. Philbert, near Clisson on 23 (22nd ?)-2-1940 out of
. fuel. Hit a ditch. Abandoned at Bouguenais with 21 AD on 16(?)-5-1940.
W6457 24 Sqn ex G-AFSO. Destroyed by 3 Bf 110s on 31-5-1940 (ref. TNA file AIR 35/149) OR
. Engine failure during evacuation flight, F/L near Aneuil close to front line 31-5-1940.
X8505 24 Sqn ex G-AEXP. Damaged by German attack at St. Omer 21-5-1940, abandoned.
X8506 24 Sqn ex G-AFEO. Abandoned at Bricy, May or June 1940. Captured intact ?
X8508 24 Sqn ex G-AFAH. Damaged by German attack at Merville 21-5-1940, abandoned.
X9320 24 Sqn ex G-ACYM. Damaged landing at Moyenneville, near Pas de Calais 12-2-1940.
. Not repaired.
G-AEBW 24 Sqn Abandoned at Bordeaux, on evacuation 18-6-1940. Out of fuel.
G-AEPF 24 Sqn Abandoned at Bordeaux, on evacuation 18-6-1940.


Some DH Rapides from AB Impressements Log


G-ADNH W6423 7.1.40. Delivered to No. 24 Sqn. as G-ADNH and first used on the 11th. Later became W6423 and was damaged bv enemv action at Coullomiers. France. on 16.5.40. The engines and equipment were salvaged, but the airframe was abandoned and SOC on 3.6.40

Note: G-ADNN was a GENERAL AIRCRAFT GAL ST25 MONOSPAR JUBILEE

G-ADNI W9365 Delivered to No. 24 Sqn. and first used as W9365 on 15.5.40. Later damaged in France and collected bv No. 21 A.D., where it was abandoned and SOC on 22.6.40 (not on list above)

G-AEAM W6424 4.1.40. Delivered to No. 24 Sqn. on 4.9.39, G-AEAM was first used by the squadron on the 13th. While on a flight to Nantes on 212.40, the pilot of G-AEAM was forced to land at St. Philbert, near
Clissen, France, due to fuel starvation. He overran the field and piled up in a ditch. Dismantled and conveyed to No. 21 A.D. on the 27th for repair and became W6424, but was abandoned at Amiens on 16.5.40 and destroyed in a dismantled condition.

G-AFSO W64S7 Used by No. 24 Sqn. as G-AFSO from 10.10.39 and later became W6457. During the evacuation from France. W6457 was forced to land near Aneuil on 31.5.40 and came under concentrated machine fire from German troop. The Rapide caught fire and became a total loss.

G-ACYM Delivered to No. 24 Sqn on 17th and first used on the 20th by C'Flt. While transaporting passengers and freight to Amien on 12.2.40, the pilot of G-ACYN encounted as snowstorm that forced him to land at Moyenneville, Franced, and the tail collapsed after a rough landing on frozen ground. SOC on 4.4.40 as Cat.W. G-ACYM was later destroyed and abandonded during the evacuation from France during May/June 1940.

G-AEBW. Delivered to No. 24 Sqn via N.A.C (National Air Communications). First used by the squadron on the 10thh, G-AEBW was based at Le Bourget A/P from 8.11.39. Last used by the squadron in France on December 1st, it was flown back to the U.K. and returned to N.A.C at Ronaldsway on the 21st. G -AEBW continued to be used by the N.A.C., but on 18.6.40 it had to be abandoned at Bordeaux. probably through lack of fuel

G-AEPF - Lost while under N.A.C aegis, Air Commerce G-EPF, which was abandoned in France on 18.6.40. Note: maybe not formally transferred to 24 Sqn on books, but likely used by them.
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