K. Buhlingen Abschuss List

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

My list including times, the number and unconfirmed:-

4th September 1940 Hurricane 1000 hrs Nr.1
11th September 1940 Hurricane 1635 hrs Nr.2
26th September 1940 Spitfire 1740 hrs u/c
30th September 1940 Spitfire 1228 hrs Nr.3
1st October 1940 Hurricane 1200 hrs u/c
7th October 1940 Hurricane 1652 hrs Nr.4
7th October 1940 Hurricane 1655 hrs u/c
7th November 1940 Hurricane 1528 hrs Nr.5
10th November 1940 Spitfire 1545 hrs u/c
28th November 1940 Spitfire 1720 hrs u/c
21st June 1941 Spitfire 1636 hrs Nr.6
21st June 1941 Spitfire 1650 hrs Nr.7
21st June 1941 Spitfire 1651 hrs Nr.8
7th July 1941 Spitfire 1532 hrs Nr.9
10th July 1941 Spitfire 1218 hrs Nr.10
10th July 1941 Spitfire 1221 hrs Nr.11
11th July 1941 Spitfire 1455 hrs Nr.12
23rd July 1941 Spitfire 1323 hrs Nr.13
23rd July 1941 Spitfire 1327 hrs Nr.14
7th August 1941 Spitfire 1748 hrs Nr.15
12th August 1941 Hurricane 1907 hrs Nr.16
16th August 1941 Spitfire 1942 hrs Nr.17
19th August 1941 Spitfire 1201 hrs Nr.18
21st August 1941 Spitfire 1509 hrs Nr.19
26th August 1941 Spitfire 1622 hrs Nr.20
19th August 1942 Spitfire 0810 hrs Nr.21
19th August 1941 Spitfire 1324 hrs Nr.22
19th August 1942 Spitfire 1642 hrs u/c
19th August 1942 Spitfire 1653 hrs u/c
4th September 1942 Spitfire ---- hrs u/c
3rd December 1942 Spitfire 1055 hrs Nr.23
18th December 1942 Spitfire 1106 hrs Nr.24
26th December 1942 P-38 1332 hrs Nr.25
26th December 1942 P-38 1340 hrs Nr.26
4th January 1943 P-40 1040 hrs Nr.27
4th January 1943 B-26 1044 hrs Nr.28
8th January 1943 P-38 1447 hrs Nr.29
8th January 1943 P-38 1529 hrs Nr.30
8th January 1943 P-38 1542 hrs Nr.31
14th February 1943 P-38 1250 hrs Nr.32
21st January 1943 P-40 0839 hrs Nr.33
21st January 1943 P-40 0844 hrs Nr.34
28th January 1943 P-38 1415 hrs Nr.35
30th January 1943 Spitfire 0736 hrs Nr.36
30th January 1943 Spitfire 0740 hrs Nr.37
2nd February 1943 P-40 0814 hrs Nr.38
2nd February 1943 P-40 0816 hrs Nr.39
2nd February 1943 P-39 0817 hrs Nr.40
2nd February 1943 P-40 0820 hrs Nr.41
2nd February 1943 Spitfire 0915 hrs Nr.42
3rd February 1943 Spitfire 0900 hrs Nr.43
3rd February 1943 Spitfire 0902 hrs Nr.44
3rd February 1943 Spitfire 0904 hrs Nr.45
3rd February 1943 Spitfire 0906 hrs Nr.46
4th February 1943 Spitfire 1612 hrs Nr.47
4th February 1943 Spitfire 1613 hrs Nr.48
4th February 1943 Spitfire 1616 hrs Nr.49
9th February 1943 P-40 1352 hrs Nr.50
9th February 1943 P-40 1353 hrs Nr.51
10th February 1943 Spitfire 1345 hrs Nr.52
14th February 1943 Spitfire 0825 hrs Nr.53
14th February 1943 Spitfire 1100 hrs Nr.54
14th February 1943 Spitfire 1102 hrs Nr.55
14th February 1943 Spitfire 1621 hrs Nr.56
15th February 1943 P-38 1459 hrs Nr.57
15th February 1943 P-38 1503 hrs Nr.58
15th February 1943 P-38 1513 hrs Nr.59
8th March 1943 Spitfire 0938 hrs Nr.60
8th March 1943 Spitfire 0939 hrs Nr.61
12th March 1943 P-38 0427 hrs Nr.62
12th March 1943 P-38 1422 hrs Nr.63
12th March 1943 P-38 1426 hrs Nr.64
15th May 1943 P-51 0716 hrs Nr.65
17th May 1943 Typhoon 1058 hrs Nr.66
1st July 1943 Typhoon ----hrs u/c
4th July 1943 P-47 1322 hrs Nr.67
4th July 1943 Spitfire 1732 hrs Nr.68
14th July 1943 Spitfire 0905 hrs Nr.69
15th July 1943 Typhoon 1634 hrs Nr.70
16th July 1943 Spitfire 2010 hrs Nr.71
18th July 1943 Spitfire 1835 hrs Nr.72
30th July 1943 B-17 0925 hrs Nr.73
30th July 1943 Typhoon 1600 hrs Nr.74
17th August 1943 B-17 1722 hrs Nr.75
19th August 1943 Spitfire 1243 hrs A.S.M Nr.76
2nd September 1943 P-51 0950 hrs v.n.e-a.s.m Nr.77
6th September 1943 B-17 0948 hrs Nr.78
6th September 1943 B-17 1310 hrs Nr.79
6th September 1943 B-17 1435 hrs Nr.80
9th September 1943 Spitfire 1553 hrs Nr.81
3rd October 1943 Spitfire 1845 hrs Nr.82(this one is missing from the daily mikrofilms, but is on the Stab.II./JG2 mikrofilm with only date and time shown).
14th October 1943 B-17 1345 hrs Nr.82
26th November 1943 B-17 1038 hrs Nr.83
29th January 1944 P-47 1115 hrs Nr.85
5th February 1944 B-24 1100 hrs Nr.86
5th February 1944 P-47 1150 hrs Nr.87
24th February 1944 B-17 1228 hrs Nr.88
24th February 1944 B-24 1230 hrs Nr.89
25th February 1944 B-17 1233 hrs Nr.90
18th March 1944 1321 hrs Nr.91
28th April 1944 B-17 1205 hrs v.n.e-a.s.m Nr.92
6th June 1944 P-47 1157 hrs Nr.93
7th June 1944 P-47 1907 hrs Nr.94
7th June 1944 P-47 1909 hrs Nr.95
12th June 1944 P-47 0604 hrs Nr.96
5th July 1944 P-47 1055 hrs Nr.97
5th July 1944 P-47 1549 hrs Nr.98
5th July 1944 P-51 1552 hrs v.n.e-a.s.m Nr.99

Those you have for 8th September 1943, fourth B-17 for 16th September 1943 and 9th June 1944 are most likely spurious/mistakes., or possibly unconfirmed. Personally I would be suspicious of any claim without an exact time, or without a source !

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Leo Etgen]

Hello

I've noticed that are are some notable differences between the claims lists compiled by Tony Wood, Russell Guest and Johannes Mathews on one hand (going by memory) and that included in the relevant Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945 volumes regarding II./JG 2 in the Mediterranean theater. I understand that due to the difficulty of deciphering the original microfilms different interpretations will arise. However, the differences in this particular instance are quite extensive. Has any member of the Jagdfliegerverbände series alluded to this issue at some point?

Horrido!

Leo

[Johannes]

Hi Leo

The only difference between my own mikrofilm reading and Tony Woods should be correct reading of the pilots names. In my opinion Tony Woods has read the name as well as he can considering the bad handwriting e.t.c, however he doen't know who flew with which staffel to know who the name should be. But with Bühligen we should be exact.

The mikrofilms has mistakes, very few, but they are mostly obvious Also some mikrofilms are under/over exposed. There are tricks you can do, differing lighting, coloured lighting. In the case of the worst Mikrofilms i.e Daily films for April 1943 in the East and the JG53 earlier staffel claims I had the mikrofilms themselves professionally cleaned-up, and digitally converted. I checked my own readings against those of the Prien books, who's reader doeas know who a name should be, and we are almost an exact match. This is why I believe the II./JG2 in Africa listings are result of an EXCEL mis-sort. Prien also has like myself many flugbücher to check against. With 8./JG52 there are a few claims missing from the mainstream mikrofilms, and checking against the anerk nummer the actual anerk nummer missing are revealed, but they appear on the sub-list mikrofilms listing date and time only, one of Günther Rall's is missing from the daily mikrofilms, and checking against the sub-list there is an exact match against that recorded in his flugbuch. There is also a duplication of his 199th and 200th on the mikrofilms, these are exact in detail but exactly one month later. Also with night-fighters in the West this occurs exactly a year apart many time 1942 to 1943. Sometimes it's not until your checking an abschüßelist that you pick this up.

There is more research to be done for sure.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Johannes

Many thanks to you and your colleagues who have pored over the microfilms and rendered their contents into accessible forms for the rest of us to use. I can only imagine the very tedious work that this must entail and a great debt of gratitude is owned by all of use to those who have made this important source of information available.

Horrido!

Leo

[knusel]

Good morning Gentlemen,

I fully agree with Leo's praise for Johannes and would like to add that Leo's biography about Bühligen is excellent both in content and style. I have cross-checked the victory list (105 kills) therein with the list of Johannes (99 kills). The additional kills that are in the Leo list but not confirmed in the Johannes list are:
26,9.40 Spitfire 1740
1,10.40 Hurricane S Bournemouth 1200
7,10.40 Hurricane S Portland 1655
4,9.41 Spitfire Boulogne-Somme estuary-Dover 1730
19,8.42 Spitfire 60km N St.Valery 1642
19,8.42 Spitfire 60km N St.Valery 1653
6,9.43 B-17 NM Mélun 1300
8,9.43 Hptm Boston S. Lille 900
one in the 26Nov43-18Mar44 period
The kills that are in the Johannes list but not confirmed in the Leo list are:
4,1.43 B-26 15km SSW Tdidjana 1044
21,1.43 P-40 W Djebel Trozzo 844
2,9.43 P-51 NW Auxi-le-Chateau 950
The kills that are not confirmed in neither list are:
10,11.40 Ofw Spitfire E Portland 1545
28,11.40 Ofw Spitfire Isle of Wight 1720
12,3.43 B-17 westlich E La Sebala 1422
9,6.44 N Paris
Intriguingly, both lists reach 112 if added up with the other.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hi Leo, Tony Woods first files were done around 20 years ago, and he probably did not have much data available apart from the microfilms he was transcribing. At least that is my guess, as at the time I exchanged regularly with him to correct or identify pilot's names, using published unit histories and especially loss lists. Jim P was another contributor and thanks to data drawn from his loss database hundred of names were corrected/completed. Still it was just a partial work from my part (bacically, if I was working on a given day and found claims I can complete, I wrote to Tony), and probably the same from Jim.

On the other hand, the JFV team did a complete study, using far more available sources, and while nobody can claim to be 100% accurate in such a wide subject, I will trust JFV far more than Tony, who did his best with the available data at the time.

[Johannes]

Hi

I think the main Mikrofilms became available for purchase in 1999. Bernd Barbas and myself each acquired a set. Firstly it was just pure getting it onto a computer, then continuously sorting on EXCEL to iron-out faults, many name were unreadable/unidentified so we compiled huge files on each Geschwader to cross-reference against. Every little thing was important, like rank, anerk.nr. It took myself fifteen years of every weekend and evening cross-referencing.

I think the total of confirmed claims(including information from flugbücher not covered by the mikrofilms) was 66600, but there must be many others to be found, but it exact timelines for different units. With a pilots abschüßlist we would always compare the periods covered by the mikrofilms to judge it's accuracy, if it's a perfect match within the mikrofilms scope, then surely those before the scope of the mikrofilms can be accepted as fact !

But as time goes by more information is surfacing, but some is fake, or doctored.

So in short the final information, is far into the future.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[knusel]

Good morning Johannes,

your deeds for the sake of airwar history are heroic.
"fifteen years of every weekend and evening" ?
Does that mean you also had a non-airwar job to do ?

I wish you a good Friday,

Michael

[Johannes]

Hi Michael

Yes, now I come to think about it I spent every lunchtime for a couple of year running the mikrofilms through a viewer we had at work.

Yet I thought of it as a time consuming, exciting hobby....that I just couldn't wait to do more of. Mikrofilms like puzzles needed to be viewed under different light settings, i.e usually different times of the day, if an area is so damaged it is also impossible to read, go back to it later under different light, or no light, cover the screen with coloured translucent sheet, anything that might help !

Keep Well

Johannes

[knusel]

Good evening dear Johannes,

that sound fascinating, indeed. As a pathologist I stare through the microscope most of the day. It's a bit similar to your deed but my images are multicolored.

Cheers,

Michael