263 Squadron recoveries from Norway

[alex crawford]

Hi,

I am trying to compile an accurate account of 263 Squadrons operations over Norway. During the weekend I was attempting to list the Gladiators that went to Norway with 263 Squadron on both expeditions. 1st Expedition was during April and the 2nd was during May-June. On both expeditions 18 aircraft were used.

The amount of Gladiators recovered from Norway helps in identifying the aircraft that were used. In an issue of Aeroplane Monthly there is a list of aircraft recovered from Norway, although I have a few queries about some of the serials.

The magazine lists N5643 as being recovered from Lake Lesjaskog and now in Norway for restoration. In RAF Serials L1000-N9999 it lists N5643 as being with the Shetlands Fighter Flight. On 20 March 1940 it was damaged beyond repair in an accident. Could it have been repaired and issued to 263 Squadron?

The list also states that quantities of airframe components and equipment have been recovered from N5628, N5632, N5638, N5647, N5693, N5704, N5705, N5905, N5907.

The forward fuselage of N5628 now resides at the RAF Museum, Hendon. N5632, N5647, N5693, N5705, N5905 and N5907 did go to Norway and were lost, although some sources state that N5907 was lost on HMS Glorious. N5638 was issued to 152 Squadron and according to RAF serials it went to the Admiralty in 1942. Again it may well have went to Norway with 263 Squadron and the paperwork was mixed up or not filled in properly. One example being N5914. Its last known operator was Prestwick Fighter Flight yet it ended up in Norway and was recovered in the 90's and is now awaiting restoration with the Jet Age Museum.

N5704 is reported to have ben sold to the Finnish Air Force. If so how did its remains end up in Norway? I do know that panels from one aircraft could end up on another and as such can cause confusion.

My sources for my research is Mason, Shores Fledgling Eagles, RAF Aircraft L1000-N9999 Air Britain, Shores Aces High and Those Other Eagles, Franks Fighter Command Losses Vol1, Hakans Biplane Aces site plus various magazine articles. I also have 263 Squadrons ORB for this period but it doesn't really mention serial numbers.

From these sources I get between 20-22 aircraft for each expedition so its not as clear cut as it looks. I know 8 Gladiators were lost during May/June but if I add all my sources together then I can get 11.

If anyone can help with further details on the recovered Gladiators from Norway or more detailed info on N5643, N5638 and N5704 I would be grateful.

Regards,

Alex

Originally Posted by alex crawford

Hi,

I am trying to compile an accurate account of 263 Squadrons operations over Norway. During the weekend I was attempting to list the Gladiators that went to Norway with 263 Squadron on both expeditions. 1st Expedition was during April and the 2nd was during May-June. On both expeditions 18 aircraft were used.

The amount of Gladiators recovered from Norway helps in identifying the aircraft that were used. In an issue of Aeroplane Monthly there is a list of aircraft recovered from Norway, although I have a few queries about some of the serials.

The magazine lists N5643 as being recovered from Lake Lesjaskog and now in Norway for restoration. In RAF Serials L1000-N9999 it lists N5643 as being with the Shetlands Fighter Flight. On 20 March 1940 it was damaged beyond repair in an accident. Could it have been repaired and issued to 263 Squadron?

The list also states that quantities of airframe components and equipment have been recovered from N5628, N5632, N5638, N5647, N5693, N5704, N5705, N5905, N5907.

The forward fuselage of N5628 now resides at the RAF Museum, Hendon. N5632, N5647, N5693, N5705, N5905 and N5907 did go to Norway and were lost, although some sources state that N5907 was lost on HMS Glorious. N5638 was issued to 152 Squadron and according to RAF serials it went to the Admiralty in 1942. Again it may well have went to Norway with 263 Squadron and the paperwork was mixed up or not filled in properly. One example being N5914. Its last known operator was Prestwick Fighter Flight yet it ended up in Norway and was recovered in the 90's and is now awaiting restoration with the Jet Age Museum.

N5704 is reported to have ben sold to the Finnish Air Force. If so how did its remains end up in Norway? I do know that panels from one aircraft could end up on another and as such can cause confusion.

My sources for my research is Mason, Shores Fledgling Eagles, RAF Aircraft L1000-N9999 Air Britain, Shores Aces High and Those Other Eagles, Franks Fighter Command Losses Vol1, Hakans Biplane Aces site plus various magazine articles. I also have 263 Squadrons ORB for this period but it doesn't really mention serial numbers.

From these sources I get between 20-22 aircraft for each expedition so its not as clear cut as it looks. I know 8 Gladiators were lost during May/June but if I add all my sources together then I can get 11.

If anyone can help with further details on the recovered Gladiators from Norway or more detailed info on N5643, N5638 and N5704 I would be grateful.

Regards,

Alex

HI. might have been shot down or crashed landed from finland to norway.or repaired.serial num are wrong sometimes.
gary

[Smithy]

Hi Alex,

The Gladiator II in the Bodø Luftfartsmuseum is a former 263 mount with serial N5641 and is hanging over the main floor when you enter the military history hall at the museum. It was one of the aircraft flown onto Lake Lesjaskogsvann on 24th April from HMS Glorious.Here's a photo (sorry not wonderful quality) which I took when last there in April

[alex crawford]

Hi Gary, Smithy

Thanks for the replies.

I'm not too keen on aircraft hanging from wires. There's so much more to see when they are at ground level, but I suppose it does free up much needed space.

I don't know how authentic the codes are as when the aircraft was donated to the Norwegian Air Force it was devoid of any camouflage colours. I have seen a couple of colour photos of the aircraft in the wooden shed and it appears to be all one colour, namely a light grey.

I have been informed that during the voyage from the UK to Norway some of the Gladiators were repainted while on board HMS Glorious. Perhaps trhis was one of them.

Alex

[vingtor]

Hi,

I assume you know about Håkan's Aviation Page

The Gladiator N5641 that is displayed in Bodø is painted completely wrong. The camouflage pattern is incorrect and the markings are far from correct. Both the yellow ring in the roundel and the fin flash, were introduced after the 1st expedition. The blue cowling, wheel hubs and rudder are based on imagination rather than fact. Finally, the registration codes and serial number are incorrectly positioned.

Much have been said about 263 Squadron's camouflage, especially an alleged "arctic" scheme or a naval scheme, having Sky Grey undersides extened up the fuselage sides. This photo has been taken as proof on this "fact":



I have however recently seen another copy of this photo, copied from the original negative film. This copy clearly shows a disruptive camouflage on the fuselage sides, i.e. like the standard RAF Dk.Green/Dk.Earth/Lt.Green/Lt.Earth scheme. Something like this:



I have seen photos of N5641 in a shed, before restoration, probably the same photos as you have seen. The photos are not very good, and I can not see any camouflage demarcation lines. However period photos of 263 Sqn. Gladiators from the 1st and 2nd expeditions show the standard RAF scheme.

Nils

[paulmcmillan]

Flight Dec 7th 1967... From 'the before his time' Leslie Hunt ....

"Norwegian Gladiator Discovery

SIR,—I feel sure many readers will be interested to hear that a letter received from Wg Cdr Arthur Gill, British Air Attache in Oslo (who has been a tower of strength to me in "preservation" efforts) tells of Gladiator Mk II,
serial 5641, discovered in excellent condition near Lesjaskog. Presumed to be the sole complete survivor of 263 Sqn, the Gladiator seems to have been purchased from the Germans by a Norwegian farmer for the equivalent of £3 10s! The farmer (now dead) built a hut for the Gladiator, removed the wings, and inhibited the engine, fixing the four machine guns to fhe wall.
Col Steffen-Olsen is negotiating with the farmer's family for the Gladiator to be removed by rail to Gardermoen for renovation and, later, for display in the Royal Norwegian Air Force Museum to be established in Oslo.
The remains of other Gladiators can still be seen at the bottom of Lake Lesjaskog, but whether it is possible to retrieve them is not known.

90 Woodside, Leigh-on-Sea, Essex LESLIE HUNT"

[vingtor]

I met the pilot of N5641, Stuart Mills, when he visited Norway in the early 1980s. He then said that the squadron code should be HE-B, not HE-G as on the restored aircraft. Later research has however shown that the code might not have been HE-B after all...

Nils

[alex crawford]

Hi Nils, Paul

Thanks for your feedback, very interesting indeed. I have seen a larger version of the Gladiator in the 'naval' scheme which shows more of the fuselage and the aircrafts individual number but no serial number is visible.

I exchanged a number of emails from Rick Kent a number of years ago. He stated that he spoke with someone who was aboard Glorious at the time of the first Expedition. He said that durinmg the crossing a number of Gladiators were repainted in naval colours to make them blend in with the surrounding country side. The dark earth was repainted light grey. The Gladiators were flown on board Glorious on 21st April and flown off to Lake Lesjaskog on 24th. In the three days they were on board the carrier could they have been repainted considering the cramped conditions on board. You have to remember that the carrier also had on board 11 Skuas and 17 Sea Gladiators from 802 and 804 Squadron, FAA.

Regarding N5579. This Gladiator was also recovered from Lake Lesjaskog at around the same time as N5641. The wings were removed and the fuselage was towed to Byom car repair shop, (now parking lot) in Bjørnson Rd. close to Gjøvik Hotel in the autumn of 1940. I have seen a photo of the fuselage in the car park. The individual letter can still be made out, which is 'D'. Full code HE-D. The fuselage was reported to have been scrapped sometime in 1940.

It is interesting to note that N5579 was 'recovered' from the Lake and is now at the FAA Museum under restoration. It could be possible that the wings from N5579 were recovered and are being used in the restoration of the FAA Museum example. I believe the completed airframe will represent Sea Gladiator N5518, which was used by 263 Squadron on the Lake.

Alex