Bf109 G-2 wk.nr. 14666

[DaveM2]

All

Can anyone provide loss info for this machine?

TIA
Dave

[G.R.Morrison]

Bf 109G-2 WNr.14666 (Stammkennzeichen: KG+WN) of the Stab II./JG 5, “<- + -“
Notlandung 4.April 1943 near Kandalakscha following Luftkampf with enemy fighters. Oblt. Lorenz Bauer returned.

GRM

[DaveM2]

Thanks, seems that isn't the aircraft I am looking for. If you are able, could you check for 14058, 14858 and 14958.
I am hoping one of those was lost on 15 March 1943?

cheers
Dave

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by DaveM2

I am hoping one of those was lost on 15 March 1943?

I have been following this discussion with interest.
May I ask Dave why you state 15 March 1943?
According to both Mombeek and Valtonen no Bf 109 was lost what so ever on that particular date. I have not checked Prien, but I don't think he and his team has located any lost 109 either

GRM
I am interested in your statement that Oblt Bauer returned.
Mombeek says he was missing while Valtonen says he was killed.
Obviously you must rely on some other information stating that.
May I ask your source?

Cheers
Stig

[DaveM2]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

I have been following this discussion with interest.
May I ask Dave why you state 15 March 1943?
According to both Mombeek and Valtonen no Bf 109 was lost what so ever on that particular date. I have not checked Prien, but I don't think he and his team has located any lost 109 either

GRM
I am interested in your statement that Oblt Bauer returned.
Mombeek says he was missing while Valtonen says he was killed.
Obviously you must rely on some other information stating that.
May I ask your source?

Cheers
Stig

Stig

This came from the document describing the Safanovo collection 'Presumably shot down March 15, 1943 by Guard Captain PI. Orlov."
I think it was a 'ballpark' guess on their part, trying to fit it in with Orlov's claim.

The fighter came down on the frozen Yavr-ozero and eventually sank into shallow water. They Russians also say the pilot was picked up by Storch after making his way south toward Kandalakscha, which was apparently the only village in the vicinity at the time (even if some 200 km away). Hence the reference in the loss report.

Interesting case for sure!

cheers
Dave

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Dave

So the recovery of Bauer is only from Soviet sources?
Is there any German source saying he returned?

The best way of finding out which aircraft it is must be to pinpoint the lake in question. Problem is that Yavr does not get us anywhere since (from Google) this seems to be a kind of "suffix" to various different lakes all ending with yavr and on top they all seems to be in the northern Murmansk area and not Alakurtti - Kandalaksja.
Ozero does not help either since that only means lake in Russian.

Can the complete name of the lake be tracked down?

Cheers
Stig

[ouidjat]

14058, a G-1, lost 19.8.1942
14858, a G-4, lost 8.6.1943
14958, a G-4, lost 28.6.1943

[DaveM2]

Ouidjat

Many thanks, most appreciated.

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by DaveM2

All

Can anyone provide loss info for this machine?

TIA
Dave

This said, Why, Dave, do you think it's 14666 ? You can, maybe, show us a partial view of the machine's picture ... for it seems it's a bad reading.

[DaveM2]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

This said, Why, Dave, do you think it's 14666 ? You can, maybe, show us a partial view of the machine's picture ... for it seems it's a bad reading.

This is the ID given in a document I received recently about the Gustav in the Northern Fleet Museum. It was apparently discovered in Lake Yavrozer in 1991 and is thought to have been bought down by Guards Captain P.I. Orlov during combat on 15th March 1943.
Not sure if Kandalakscha is near there or not.

However I have the aircraft as 14685 lost on 27.03.43, Edward Krischkovski POW.
Trying to determine which one is in error.
I am contacting the museum to see where they discovered the 14666 identity.

Dave