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  #1  
Old 23rd January 2005, 02:29
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UK/US fighters on Eastern Front - June 1944?

I'm looking for Soviet units (using UK/US built fighters) or USAAF units operating on Eastern Front in Siemiatycze area. I'm trying to find answer for story published in this thread: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=270

Any help greatly appreciated.
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Old 23rd January 2005, 08:59
Ota Jirovec Ota Jirovec is offline
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Hello Peter,

perhaps the Allied fighters you were asking about were the P-51s of 4th and 352nd Fighter Groups USAAF that were escorting bombers during the FRANTIC operation to Russia on 21. 6. 1944. There were some encounters with Luftwaffe over Poland and some German aircraft were claimed shot down by the Mustang pilots, among others over Kobryn and Brest-Litevsk (sorry, I do not have the complete list of USAAF claims, perhaps Frank Olynyk could help...).

The RAF fighters seem to be ruled out, because the area mentioned by you is out of their range.

Hope this helps a little,

Ota
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Old 23rd January 2005, 12:39
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Thanks Ota, I'll try to ask Frank about these claims.

Original He 177 was shot down on June 8th, 1944 - of course date is taken from claims of villagers living nearby. I'm not sure if they could make such mistake - on June 8th was Corpus Christi holiday.
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Old 22nd April 2005, 01:50
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Re: UK/US fighters on Eastern Front - June 1944?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ota Jirovec
perhaps the Allied fighters you were asking about were the P-51s of 4th and 352nd Fighter Groups USAAF that were escorting bombers during the FRANTIC operation to Russia on 21. 6. 1944.
Hi Ota!
I've searched available data and "my" He 177 was not shot down by planes during Frantic I or Frantic II. Unfortunately I don't have list of shot downs made during Frantic III. I'm not sure about date because I've got few new info and maybe Greif was shot down week (or few weeks) later.
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Old 22nd April 2005, 10:56
Ota Jirovec Ota Jirovec is offline
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Re: UK/US fighters on Eastern Front - June 1944?

Hello Peter,


Yes, there is (at least) one claim for He 177 shot down over Poland during Frantic III: on 25.7.1944 at 13.45 hours by LtCol William A Daniel over Pzeszow A/D, East of Mielec. Unfortunately, I do not have all the claims of 15 USAAF, only those achieved by aces (from Stars and Bars by F. Olynyk), so perhaps there could be more claims....Could this indeed by "your" Heinkel. It was downed in late July....

Hope this helps a little,

Ota

P.S. Daniel flew with 308th FS of 31st FG.
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Old 22nd April 2005, 12:13
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Re: UK/US fighters on Eastern Front - June 1944?

Hi Ota, thanks for quick response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ota Jirovec
Yes, there is (at least) one claim for He 177 shot down over Poland during Frantic III: on 25.7.1944 at 13.45 hours by LtCol William A Daniel over Pzeszow A/D, East of Mielec.
Small correction. I guess that this is not Pzeszow, but Rzeszów - large city about 50km East of Mielec.

It could be "my" Heinkel, but:
1. "My" 177 was shot down over Siemiatycze - small city about 270km North of Rzeszów. I'm not sure did any "Frantic fighters" could fly so far away.
2. "My" 177 was shot down with two escort fighters.
3. Villagers claims that this happen in late May (IMO impossible because AFAIK there was no units equipped He 177 on Eastern Front), on 8th June or on 15th June. They join it with June's Thursday due to catholic holiday. I'm not sure can it be late July.

It seems that in fact it was one of Lend-Lease VVS fighters.
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Old 22nd April 2005, 12:50
Ota Jirovec Ota Jirovec is offline
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Re: UK/US fighters on Eastern Front - June 1944?

The possibility that "your" He 177 was shot down by VVS fighters in the area of Siemiatycze so early in June seems to be rather unlikely to me - the front line was simply too far away (and your area not in the range of Russian fighters). In mid-June 1944 the Germans still held Belorussia including towns like Vitebsk, Orsha and Mogilev. Couldn´t the Heinkel have been shot down later?

Ota
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Old 22nd April 2005, 15:01
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Re: UK/US fighters on Eastern Front - June 1944?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ota Jirovec
The possibility that "your" He 177 was shot down by VVS fighters in the area of Siemiatycze so early in June seems to be rather unlikely to me - the front line was simply too far away (and your area not in the range of Russian fighters). In mid-June 1944 the Germans still held Belorussia including towns like Vitebsk, Orsha and Mogilev.
That's the problem
German pilots said that their plane was attacked by few English fighters. Of course this is impossible, because there was no RAF fighters in the area. But Greif could be shot down by Russian pilots flying Lend-Lease planes.
I think that He 177 could be pursued and intercepted during recon mission. IMO P-39s or Spitfires from PVO units had sufficient range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ota Jirovec
Couldn´t the Heinkel have been shot down later?
In fact I'm not sure when this plane was shot down. Villagers claims that it was on Corpus Christi holiday - Thursday, June 8th, 1944. Another witness claims that it was a week later, on June 15th. All relations connect this shot down with Corpus Chritsi holiday so it should be June. But, of course, human memory can be very treacherous.
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