Caudron C.445 W.Nr. 1734 - correct? Or which aircraft could it be?

[Mikael Olrog]

Hi,

I've added a photo of a piece of fabric said to be from a Caudron C.445 to my website. The W.Nr. 1734 is clearly visible on the fabric but I can't find any C.445 with that serial in the Caudron Goeland book by Cortet & Espérou.

Could it be from another aircraft? A Klemm Kl 35 carried that W.Nr. but it was a 100% loss already in 1940. Any other ideas?

/Mike
www.preservedaxisaircraft.com

[ianatheling]

Hi Mike

The dimensions and general shape certainly have the appearance of a C.445. I note that C.445 A-1 stkz DR+HZ had a WNr. 734 so I wonder whether this is a candidate. This aircraft was with FFS A/B 113 from Nov 1942 to May 1943, but I have no record for it afterwards.

Ian

[Rabe Anton]

Greetings Mikael!


An interesting relic that you have there. Some thoughts about it.


1. The fabric cannot be from a Caudron C.445. According to Cortet and Espérou, the Caudron C.445 had a plywood-covered fin. Photographs confirm this. Also, as you've said, the WNr. 1734 does not match any known C.445 Werknummer.


2. The configuration (outline shape) of the fabric exactly matches that of the fin of the Focke Wulf Fw 44 Stieglitz.


3. I do not have a record for Fw 44 WNr. 1734. It appears virtually certain, however, that a Fw 44 was built with this number. Also, it seems likely that a FFS A school would have had several Fw 44s on charge, as the airplane was widely used for introductory and basic flying instruction.


4. Now, against my theory of a Fw 44 origin, we have the problem of the lines running diagonally across the fabric. I have examined the technical drawing of the Fw 44 fuselage and tail structure in Bernd Vetter, Flugzeug Profile Nr. 26, Focke-Wulf Fw 44 Stieglitz, p. 19. If this drawing is correct, the rib lines on the Fw 44 vertical fin should run horizontally across the fabric, not diagonally as you photograph shows.

5. Another possibility might be the Heinkel He 72. The outline is generally right. But I don't know if He 72 Werknummern reached 1734. If they did, this would be a number very high for this type. Also, I don't have any references showing the He 72 tail structure. Did the ribs or frame elements run diagonally on the Kadett?

5. Therefore—after all of the above, your fabric remains somewhat mysterious. It is not from a Caudron, the Fw 44 is a possibility, as is the He 72—maybe—and a, uhhhhhh, fabrication (no pun intended) is a strong possibility!!! Perhaps another reader can add something to this discussion?


RA

[Rabe Anton]

Greetings Mikael!

An interesting relic that you have there. Some thoughts about it.

1. The fabric cannot be from a Caudron C.445. According to Cortet and Espérou, the Caudron C.445 had a plywood-covered fin. Photographs confirm this. Also, as you've said, the WNr. 1734 does not match any known C.445 Werknummer.

2. The configuration (outline shape) of the fabric exactly matches that of the fin of the Focke Wulf Fw 44 Stieglitz.

3. I do not have a record for Fw 44 WNr. 1734. It appears virtually certain, however, that a Fw 44 was built with this number. Also, it seems
likely that a FFS A school would have had several Fw 44s on charge, as the airplane was widely used for introductory and basic flying instruction.

4. Now, against my theory of a Fw 44 origin, we have the problem of the lines running diagonally across the fabric. I have examined the technical drawing of the Fw 44 fuselage and tail structure in Bernd Vetter, Flugzeug Profile Nr. 26, Focke-Wulf Fw 44 Stieglitz, p. 19. If this drawing is correct, the rib lines on the Fw 44 vertical fin should run horizontally across the fabric, not diagonally as you photograph shows.

5. Therefore—after all of the above, your fabric remains somewhat mysterious. It is not from a Caudron, the Fw 44 is a possibility—maybe—
and a, uhhhhhh, fabrication (no pun intended) is a strong possibility!!! Perhaps another reader can add something to this discussion?

RA

[Mikael Olrog]

Hi Ian and Rabe,

Thanks for confirming my concern regarding the C.445 identification made of this fabric - on display at Louisiana Museum of Military History, Ruston, Louisiana - so it is not my own artefact. Pointing out that the Caudron had plywood covering was a good thing.

Could it be so that the diagonal lines running over the fabric comes from the GI actually folding it when putting it in his backpack (or whatever he used) before returning back to the States, possibly storing it over the decades in a folded way?

So I would say that a Fw 44 would be a possibility - among several - one obvious could of course be that it is a "fabrication" unless the museum have confirmed its provenance.

Best regards
/Mike

[Rabe Anton]

Servus, Mikael!

This is absolutely, completely, totally astonishing! "Your" piece of fabric is in RUSTON, LOUISIANA, USA?! My family moved to Ruston in 1959, I finished high school there in 1960, and went to Louisana Poly-technic Institute there for five years!!! My father died in Ruston in 1974, and my mother left there in 1986. I, too, have long been gone, but after so many years living there the town remains a kind of home town for me. . . .

I agree with your thesis about folding the fabric. It would be necessary to do that, wouldn't it, to get the piece sent home. . . .

RA

[Mikael Olrog]

Whow, a small world, is'nt it! Well, you know which museum to visit when you pass by Ruston next time.

Best regards
Mike

[Merlin]

Mikael,

Fw 44 - fabric shape does match but WNr. 1734 was damaged 80% with FFS A/B 41 on 11.Jan.41. This plane was not flown again.
He 72 - fabric shape does match but highest WNr. within this type was 1269.
Bü 131 - fabric shape does not match.
Kl 35B - fabric shape does match, WNr. 1734 was build in January 1940, the first owner during 1940/41 was the FAR 82 at Cottbus, no loss report available. FFS A 5 was newly formed July 1944, the school has had Kl 35 in it’s inventory.

I think the fabric in the Louisiana Museum of Military History comes from the Kl 35B WNr. 1734.

[Mikael Olrog]

Interesting information, thanks Merlin!