Hans Philipp

[BlakeField]

I just read on the internet (yes, I know - a not-so-reliable reference source) that the victor over Hans Philipp on Oct 8, 1943 was Robert S. Johnson of the 56th FG.

I read it in an interview with Johnson conducted in the mid 1990's. I am curious as to why I have never read this before, but more curious about whether or not it is true.

Can anyone point me to a solid reference on this?

As a side note, a number of years ago, perhaps in 1998 or so, I briefly corresponded with a guy in Europe who had the commemorative pistol awarded to Hans Philipp in honor of his receiving the Oak Leaves to the RK. This guy did not know who Hans Philipp was, and was asking about him on a message board. It might even have been this one. He emailed me photos of the gun. I was mighty impressed, even though I had to wonder how he came about that gun...

[BlakeField]

Anybody...?

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by BlakeField

Anybody...?

First, patience. You only posted the question yesterday. This is not McDonalds.

Second, what is the internet source? How reliable is it? Aces' memories are not the most reliable source.

You might want to read this, if you've not already seen it.

http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Philip.htm

[BlakeField]

I apologize - I had no idea I was offending anyone.

Here is the link that I was reading:

http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_rsj.html

It is an interview by Military History with Johnson, and the interviewer asks. "I understand that Oberstleutnant Hans Philipp, leader of JG.1, was one of your victories?" to which Johnson replies, "...I found out 50 years later that my fifth victory was Hans Philipp, a 206-victory ace from the Russian Front."

I was intrigued by this, as my reading on that subject has not been inconsiderable, yet I had heard nothing of this before.

I was just curious if anyone knew another source for this.

Thanks for the steer to the web link. I have indeed read this piece before.

[Don Pearson]

A search here does indicate that Johnson scored on this date

http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/afhra/

Unfortunately not much detail.

Don

[Klaus Schiffler]

The loss list in Jochen Prien's book, Jagdgeschwader 1 und 11, indicates that Hans Phillip was killed in combat with B-17s. He was flying Fw 190A-6, Red One, W.Nr. 530 407. He was flying with his wingman, Hans-G. Reinhardt, who rammed a B-17 and had to force-land, being wounded. These two pilots were flying in a Rotte (two aircraft). Reinhardt stated that Philipp had shot down his B-17 (206th kill) but his aircraft had taken hits and then flew down into the lower layers of clouds and did not return.

Johnson's statement is that he attacked four Fw 190s and shot down the flight leader. I don't think this could be Philipps since he was flying only with his wingman. Johnson's victory could be any number of Fw 190s also lost by JG 1 and 11.

I don't know how Johnson got the idea that he shot down Philipps but it does help the ego to image one shot down a top ace rather than an ordinary fighter pilot. Perhaps Martin Caidin gave him the idea as co-author of Thunderbolt. Caidin's record speaks for itself.

[Leo Etgen]

Hi all

I too had read the article in which Johnson claims to have shot down Philipp. However, while researching a bit more on this incident I noticed that Johnson's fifth victory could not possibly been Philipp as he claimed his fourth and fifth victories on 10 October and Philipp was killed on 8 October. However, Johnson did claim a Fw 190 between 15.35-55 over Lingen on 8 October. Wood's 1943 Allied Claims file also lists this victory as having been Philipp. Wood also lists Philipp as having been killed in combat with P-47 fighters over Hardenhaus in Fw 190 A-6 "Red 3" (W.Nr. 530 407). Aside of this and the previously mentioned article, there is no other credible information that would substantiate Johnson's claim. It is an interesting possibility but probably not much more than that.

Horrido!

Leo

[BlakeField]

Thanks for the responses, gents.

It is pretty much as I had thought and as Leo phrased it: an interesting possibility, but not much more.

I have read with interest over the last several years as various researchers have been able to match sortie lists, locations, victory claims and loss lists and locations to say that some certain pilot had been the victor over another. A remarkable feat, considering the large numbers of aircraft aloft on any given day.

Regardless, it does not detract from Johnson's achievements; he was an aggressive and capable fighter pilot.

[Artist]

A little off topic. I used to corespond with Johnson, and aggresive fighter pilot is the word. He used to get in much trouble for this. He felt it was his job to get between the enemy fighters and the bombers at all costs. Where his commanders looked for the best position to engage. Bob