Jan17,1943 Abschuss F-5/P-38 Oblt. Franz Schiess JG-53

[kaki3152]

On January 17,1943 Oblt Franz Schiess shot down a F-4/F-5 P-38 in a spectacular Abschuss-"I took off and coming up underneath him got to within 50 meters (~150 ft)...The American burst into flames, enveloping my own aircraft"

in spite of this vivid description, there is no corresponding F-4/F-5 loss referenced in MAW3. Any ideas? Franz Schiess was an accurate Luftwaffe experten, so he is unlikely to have fabricated the claim.

[Leendert]

Lt Keith K. Lund of 97th FS/82nd FG a candidate?

Regards,
Leendert

[RSwank]

Taken from A History of the Mediterranean Air War pages 258-259:

Sunday, 17 January was the first time the 82nd FG was able to fly its first mission as a unit, (flying from Telergma, Algeria) 16 P-38s of the 97th Squadron taking off at 0730 to escort six B-25s of 310th BG on an antishipping sortie. Twenty miles south-west of Sicily they claimed to shoot down 3 German aircraft. The P-38 flown by Keith Lund was last seen banking near the water and did not return. Lund was later reported to have become a PoW. (Note:Lund was captured on the 17th and did survive the war)


In the afternoon, Lt Schiehs scrambed from Sidi Ahmed (Biserte, Tunisia) after a lone reconnaissance aircraft which was directly over his own airfield and shot it down. From Schiehs description of the P-38 bursting into flames then hurtling downward engulfed in a sheet of flames and disintegrating just before it struck the ground it does not seem the pilot would have been able to bail out.

There seems to be both a timing issue (the P-38s flew in the morning and Schiehs shootdown occurred in the afternoon) and a survival issue of the P-38 pilot. We might need to find Lund’s version of events that day to be able to rule him “in or out”.


Rolland

[RSwank]

I found the following pdf file on the Air Force Academy Library website:

https://usafa.insigniails.com/Library/Home
Searching for a roster of names of men in Stalag Luft III, (which is where Lund was held), I found the following pdf file.

The pdf file is a compilation of names and information taken from the book "Behind the Wire, South Compound" by Arnold Wright:

https://usafa.insigniails.com/Librar...50cc466bbf.pdf


The first two pages explain the history of the file (enlarge the page to read it). The list of men (with column headings) starts on page 3. There are 14 columns of info on each name.

If you go to page 8 (or search for Lund) you find Keith K Lund. In the column headed "Where Shot Down/Captured" it says "Sea off Cape Bon Tunisia".

This would have come from Lund himself. The library has the three? volumes of Wright's "Behind the Wire" series on Stalag Luft III but only in paper form. That's a shame as he generally had a little more info on each man than what was put in the pdf file we can see. Here are a couple of pages from Wright's book which shows a little more of what was collected on each man:

https://100thbg.com/index.php?option...article&id=179

[Mark R.]

Here is what I found on Lund. 12th AF Daily Intell Rpt No. 69, 18 Jan 43, AIR 23/6609; Was lost on countershipping mission in the morning. Pincus P. Taback diary says he dipped a wing in the water, climbed and was lost from sight. This P-38 is the only Lightning loss that I have documented for the date in question.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Will need to check the various times involved, but maybe Lund was forced out of formation after hitting the sea off Sicily and was coming back westward alone, maybe on only one engine, when he was intercepted and shot down by Schiehs in Bizerte area ?

Another possibility will be a F-5 being hit by Schiehs and diving to escape, the dive extinguishing the flames reported by the German pilot allowing the US pilot to return to base.