Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 4th November 2022, 21:10
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida (USA)
Posts: 1,777
Nokose will become famous soon enough
Re: JG 52 victories

I bought the book “Hitler’s Strategic Bombing Offensive” by Demitry Degtev. His book is mainly about the German bomber campaign before the Kursk battle but he does discuss German and Soviet fighter dogfights to some degree. I looked up the names of the 961 IAP PVO in the battle he described on the 09 May 1943 and they were listed as MIA while flying I-16s over Kuban.

09 May 1943
I-16 961 IAP PVO St. Serzhant Vladimir Bakhtin (MIA)
I-16 961 IAP PVO Serzhant Ilya Elagin (MIA)
I-16 961 IAP PVO Leytenant Anatoliy Kirchkov (MIA)

Major Helmut Bennemann Stab I/JG 52
I-16 (87) 10:03
I-16 (88) 10:06

Degtev indicated that Bennemann’s victories were from 961 IAP PVO. He indicated that all the other Soviet losses in that fight fell to German bomber gunners.

09 May 1943
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 17th November 2022, 01:59
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida (USA)
Posts: 1,777
Nokose will become famous soon enough
Re: JG 52 victories

Battle of Kursk 05 July 1943
Soviet Pe-2 bomber raid on Rakovo. The Soviet formation was attacked at 10:20 - 10:25 (M) by 8 Bf 109 and Fw 190. The Pe-2 (2/195) 82 GBAP flown by Mladshiy Leytenant Boris Monin was seen to fall 4 km west of Kazatskoe and pilot and crew listed as MIA.

Hauptmann Josef Haibröck 1./JG 52 Pe-2 (25) 09:20 35 Ost/61132

Aircraft and crew remains located a few years ago at Yamnoe (Yakovlecskiy District) Belgorod Oblast.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 4th December 2022, 03:09
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida (USA)
Posts: 1,777
Nokose will become famous soon enough
Re: JG 52 victories

Operational Report # 09 Staff 265 IAD 28.04.1943 Staro-Nizhe- Steblievskaya

291 IAP 12:15-13:50 20 Yak-1 covered forces in the area of Krymskaya. 12:45 at an altitude of 3000-4000 m in the area covered met in an air battle with 6 Fw 190 and 14 Me 109. Claims by 291 IAP: Kapitan Labshiny shot down a Me-109. Group claim by St. Lt. Kryvakov and Lt. Labrenev a Me-109. (No Bf 109s were lost).
The Yak-1 flown by Leytenant Loginov made an emergency landing on the airfield at Slavyanskaya.
291 IAP losses:
Yak-1 Leytenant Nikolay D’yachenko
Yak-1 Leytenant Nikolay Luchenko
Yak-1 Starshiy Serzhant Mikolay Yastrebov
Yak-1B (32129) Starshiy Serzhant Aleksey Belostokskiy
Belostokskiy fell to Fw. Werner Quast 4//JG 52 Yak-1 (33) 11:40 PlQu 85183 at 4500 m

Can not define which one of these German pilots shot down the other Russian pilots.
Uffz. Manfred Bisenmann 5/JG 52 Yak-1 (1) 11:33 PlQu. 81181 at 6500 m
Lt. Helmut Haberda 5/JG 52 Yak-1 (43) 11:42 PlQu. 75131 at 2500 m
Fw. Viktor Petermann 5/JG 52 Yak-1 (24) 11:48 PlQu 86783 at 4500 m
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 4th December 2022, 15:28
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,055
focusfocus is on a distinguished road
Re: JG 52 victories

Hello

Uffz.Manfred Biesenmann or Manfred Eisenmann? (T.Wood)
Michel
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 4th December 2022, 20:06
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida (USA)
Posts: 1,777
Nokose will become famous soon enough
Re: JG 52 victories

Michel,
I saw Eisemann in Tony Woods list but went with Prien’s Biesenmann.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 5th December 2022, 01:18
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida (USA)
Posts: 1,777
Nokose will become famous soon enough
Re: JG 52 victories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokose View Post
Operational Report # 09 Staff 265 IAD 28.04.1943 Staro-Nizhe- Steblievskaya

291 IAP 12:15-13:50 20 Yak-1 covered forces in the area of Krymskaya. 12:45 at an altitude of 3000-4000 m in the area covered met in an air battle with 6 Fw 190 and 14 Me 109. Claims by 291 IAP: Kapitan Labshiny shot down a Me-109. Group claim by St. Lt. Kryvakov and Lt. Labrenev a Me-109. (No Bf 109s were lost).
The Yak-1 flown by Leytenant Loginov made an emergency landing on the airfield at Slavyanskaya.
291 IAP losses:
Yak-1 Leytenant Nikolay D’yachenko
Yak-1 Leytenant Nikolay Luchenko
Yak-1 Starshiy Serzhant Mikolay Yastrebov
Yak-1B (32129) Starshiy Serzhant Aleksey Belostokskiy
Belostokskiy fell to Fw. Werner Quast 4//JG 52 Yak-1 (33) 11:40 PlQu 85183 at 4500 m

Can not define which one of these German pilots shot down the other Russian pilots.
Uffz. Manfred Bisenmann 5/JG 52 Yak-1 (1) 11:33 PlQu. 81181 at 6500 m
Lt. Helmut Haberda 5/JG 52 Yak-1 (43) 11:42 PlQu. 75131 at 2500 m
Fw. Viktor Petermann 5/JG 52 Yak-1 (24) 11:48 PlQu 86783 at 4500 m
Since I posted these, I went back to the posts of the person who recovered Belostokiy’s aircraft and found another post of another Yak-1B. He found Yak-1B (#17116) of Leytenant Nikolay Dmitrievich D’yachenko (Дьяченко) in the area of the claim of Uffz. Manfred Bisenmann (or Eisenmann - will leave it to someone else to decide the correct last name)
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 5th December 2022, 10:03
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,055
focusfocus is on a distinguished road
Re: JG 52 victories

Hello

I take note.
A small question:
Do you have any information about the losses of 293° IAP and 148°IAP (28/04/43)?

Best Regards
Michel
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 6th December 2022, 06:11
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida (USA)
Posts: 1,777
Nokose will become famous soon enough
Re: JG 52 victories

Sorry Michel, I don’t have anything on them right now.

Operational Report of the Staff 219 BAD 05.09.1942 (TsAMO. F. 319, Op. 0004798, D. 0038, L. 159 page 3)
At 17:10 the Boston B-3 of the 859 BAP flown by Lt. Barabash, Serzhant Klinov, Mladshiy Serzhant Vorobev and Serzhant Ivan Lukyanenok were bombing Mozdok and took damage from German AAA. They were then attacked by Bf 109 as they started to turn. Lukyanenok’s Boston then started a steep dive to the ground and allegedly hit a German column.

Hptm. Adalbert Sommer 7/JG 52 claimed a Boston (38) 16:08 PlQu. 4443/ N. Georgjewsk

I believe the crews of the other Bostons were trying to give Lukyanenok and his crew a hero status by ramming the German column. It would seem that an aircraft going down steeply would not be controllable.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 28th September 2023, 01:34
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida (USA)
Posts: 1,777
Nokose will become famous soon enough
Re: JG 52 victories

03 June 1944 Romania
17:55 - 18:40 (M) 12 P-39 Airacobra of 100 GIAP (9 GIAD) led by Gds Lt. Ivan Babak covered Soviet ground forces at an altitude of 3000 - 4000 meters in the area of Movileni, Romania. They met in a dogfight with 50 Ju 87 under cover of 16 Fw 190 (SG?) with forward escort of 18 Bf 109. They claimed 4 Ju-87, 5 Me-109 and 1 Fw-190.
Gds Mayor Dmitriy Glinka
Ju-87 (40) west of Epureni, Romania
Ju-87 (41) west of Epureni
Fw-190 (42) Movileni station
Gds Mayor Mikhail Petrov
Me-109 (4) 4 km west of Movileni
Gds Ml. Lt. Vyacheslav Anton‘ev
Me-109 (5) Khorleshti (Horlesti, Romania)
Gds Lt. Ruchek
Me-109
Gds Ml. Lt. Grigoriy Dol‘nikov
Ju-87 (4) east of Movileni station
Me-109 (5) Motnieshti
2 group victories claimed
Soviet losses: P-39 Airacobra Gds Ml. Lt. Unreadable name, parachuted out of the fighter.
(Journal of Combat Operations 100 GIAP 29.05.1944 - 10.05.1945 page 10)

Obfhr. Franz Gärtner 5/JG 52 Airacobra (2) 17:17 at an altitude of 1000 meters PlQu. 78674

II/JG 52 reported no losses of Bf 109

Last edited by Nokose; 28th September 2023 at 01:36. Reason: Added no losses of Bf 109
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 28th September 2023, 11:21
Charles Bavarois Charles Bavarois is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Munich
Posts: 232
Charles Bavarois is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: JG 52 victories

Regarding #129

Summarische Verlustmeldungen for II./JG 52 on 3rd June 1944 show 1 Bf 109 damaged by flak and 1 Bf 109 lost due to "Bordwaffenbeschuss, feindbeobachtet". Crew not harmed as no losses of pilots know.
__________________
Carl E. Charles
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces Johannes Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 59 15th May 2023 15:38
JG 11 - claims march-april 45 GMichalski Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 24th May 2012 17:23
Erich Hohagen waterloo Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 18th January 2012 01:13
Claims and losses JG51 AreKal Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 24th July 2011 08:56
Luftwaffe Losses 26th.July 1944 Brian Bines Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 2nd April 2011 16:19


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net