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  #1  
Old 7th August 2010, 23:30
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Luftwaffe Ju 88 in Italy, July 1940

Seeking details of Luftwaffe Ju 88 "NE+TX" travelling down to Italy in summer 1940. Múnchen to Rome C.C(?) 13.07.40 - It flew some flights to/from Decimomannu Airfield in Sardinia, Italy, about 19.-21.07.1940. What was the mission? Was this Junkers sales tour, tropical testing or even more secret. Plane apparently returned direct from Rome to Rechlin (1300km) on 24.07.1940. Pilot was Christian Dietrich (E-Stelle). Handwriting of airfields in his logbook is really awful, even I could not write that bad.
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  #2  
Old 9th August 2010, 22:02
Peter Achs Peter Achs is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Ju 88 in Italy, July 1940

Did you mean this aircraft? The short career of this Ju 88 was completed in August 1940 in Gadames/Libya.

Regards
Peter

Last edited by Peter Achs; 15th August 2015 at 13:52.
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Old 10th August 2010, 15:28
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Ju 88 in Italy, July 1940

Thank you for this comment. It does not answer the question.

Logbook is clearly written as starting "1.VII.1940" (July) 40 on cover of Dipl.Ing. Christian Dietrich´s logbook. Possibly the flight to back to Rechlin happening as late as 27.VII. but writing by each entry is unclear and copy also fuzzy. But total flight´s summaries for that month is quite clear as by 31.VII 1940 it was 31.hrs, 24 min. (but some also on He 111 CP+AU and Bf 108 GJ+AI on dates 01.07.-5.7.40) - But yes, last entries on this plane on next page are 2 - 23.VIII.40 - I had not been able to make sense of airports on the August page (or had inadvertantly overlooked it flew again down to Rome on 13.08.). Maybe some Italian member can clarify what the missions down to Italy and North Africa were about.
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Old 10th August 2010, 20:05
Gianandrea Bussi Gianandrea Bussi is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Ju 88 in Italy, July 1940

According to an article written by Ferdinando D'Amico and Gabriele Valentini (AEROFAN n.° 53, jan-march 1990), NE+TX, He.111 NH+NJ and Ju.52 GS+AM were involved in tropical test.
The article is based upon the diary and flight book of a Regia Aeronautica airman, 1° Av. GILIBERTI Gilberto, who took part, as interpreter, to the test in the period 19 july-3 september 1940.
He went from Guidonia to Decimo on 19 july, to Catania on 22 july, again to Guidonia on 26 july, to Castelvetrano and Tripolis on 18 august, to Gadames on 22 august, back to Tripoli on 26 august, to Castelvetrano and Guidonia on 3 september.
He flew with the He.111 and the Ju.52, their pilots being Maj. Ziegler (19 july-18 august) and Lt. Schiering (22 august-3 september, Ju.52 only).

Best regards

Gianandrea
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Old 10th August 2010, 21:10
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Ju 88 in Italy, July 1940

Great thanks Gianandrea. These writers names are familiar. I have copy of their (and Nick Beale´s) fine book "Air War Italy" 44-45. This article written in Italian? But that is quite ok, I have means of translation. I will post you PM.

Very Best Regards
ed
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Old 15th August 2010, 08:33
Chr. Regel Chr. Regel is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Ju 88 in Italy, July 1940

Hello to all,

here are some photographs of the three aircraft dispatched to Italy from E'Stelle Rechlin and from the belly landed Ju 88 NE+TX. The photos have been made by Dipl. Ing. Ziegler from Rechlin, department E2.
It is not clear if Dipl. Ing. Dietrich was at the controls of the Ju 88 during the belly landing, there is no mention in his log book on the last 2 flights on 23. August 1940, saying start at Gadames and landing at Gadames airfield.So we can only suggest if this last flight was performed by Dietrich on 23.08.1940 or by somebody else the same day or later.
On the colour photo of He 111 NH+NJ maybe one of the Italian airmen in front of the aircraft is Mr. Giliberti ?
This aircraft later returned to Rechlin and was used for testing at least until January 1945, while I have no information about the fate of the Ju 52 GS+AM. Does anybody know more about this ?

Regards
Chr. Regel
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Old 15th August 2010, 13:57
veltro veltro is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Ju 88 in Italy, July 1940

Thanks Gianandrea for remembering the article (I should have, but it was a bit "off" among the researches done and 20 years are not a short time...).

It was one of those occasions when material found has to be enshrined in an article to avoid it being wasted...

Mr. Giliberti (who later operated as a gunner on Italian Ju 87 Stukas) was the father of a schoolmate of secondary schools and the material was somehow perceived as very interesting even in those early years.

Thanks also to Chr. Regel, for finally supporting that old study with images and very good ones indeed!

I can add, extracted from the article, the entry in Giliberti's diary relative to the accident occurred to the Ju 88 NE+TX:

"23 August - In the morning test flights until 11.00 hrs. Temperature at 8.000 m = -20°C, on the ground 65°C in the sun and 44°C in the shadow.
During the afternoon the Ju 88 makes a test dive flight and comes to land at 17.00 hrs. I notice that it passes the field boundary at about 250 km/h and touches the ground in the middle and, bouncing three times, soon reaches the other boundary, hitting a jutting rock and bouncing over 10 mt high, bouncing another time and then leaning on starboard, turning around in a cloud of dust and smoke.
We all run there, being worried to see a fire starting out (there are over 600 l of fuel aboard), but nothing happens.
The engineer tells us that neither the undercarriage system nor the flaps worked properly. The latters are extended though, as well ast the port airbrake. the starboard landing gear is fully retracted, while the port one, due to the hits and stress received while stopping, is bent towards the center of the fuselage.
The engines are intact, but the airscrew blades are bent.
The engineer tells us that he should have landed at Castelbenito, because they were flying with the landing gear extended from 15 minutes and there was a longer landing strip there.
Upon examination of the hydraulic pump it has been determined that it is damaged and the oil pipe is broken."


Hope it helps.
__________________
All the best,

Ferdinando D'Amico
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Old 15th August 2010, 19:19
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Ju 88 in Italy, July 1940

Hi All,

First I like to thank Christoph Regel for the truly remarkabe photos of the crashed A-1 NE+TX (short wing´s) and the three aircraft togeather, and also Ferdinando D´Amico for his almost forgotten research and excellent translation (and Gianandrea Bussi also for his part).

Yes, this all adds a lot to the story (also as the Italian proved much harder for me to translate than I thought). I have no actual W.Nr. or historical data on Ju 52/3m GS+AM (but like adding it) nor any production details about Ju 88 A-1 NE+TX (was it perhaps designated A-1/trop or had it possibly an Versuch number also?) On the He 111 (likely an H-3 version as per part plate found from part of aircraft made close by during the late 1939 period. This dataplate was found in Norway. As per one of Regel´s photos - "Grey 91" - this indeed was W.Nr. 5691 NH+NJ. This is known, along with other He 111 codes data as coming from ATG Leipzig. Actual listed and confirmed (written in Bold) and flights come from Baltabol log´s. It´s quite interesting there to see that He 111 NH+NK came before NH+NJ and the codes assigned around them apparently continiuing and these were ´singular´ assignments. I like very much if someone can state W.Nr. for GS+AM and also confirm W.Nr. of NE+TX (the latter I belive came from Heinkel assembly). LEMB Stkz. database gives NE+TV as 6093 but interpolating NE+TX (then 6095 if in cronological and nummerical order) does not seem to fit (as this has two references as still with the Luftwaffe later in 1940 and 1942. I thus belive some mix occurring also with the NE+T codes (or the LEMB list have number not correct). ATG He 111 list below:

5640 He 111 H-3 Abnahme 11.39 http://ktsorens.tihlde.org/flyvrak/vanna.html
-----
5662 He 111 H [TT+AO] ATG Einflug 04.12.39
5663 He 111 H [TT+AP] ATG
5664 He 111 H [TT+AQ] ATG Nachflug 10.12.39
5665 He 111 H [TT+AR]
5666 He 111 H [TT+AS]
5667 He 111 H [TT+AT]
------------------------------------------------
5668 He 111 H [NH+NK] ATG Einflug 14.12.39
------------------------------------------------
5669 He 111 H [TT+AU]
5670 He 111 H [TT+AV]
5671 He 111 H [TT+AW] ATG Einflug 17.12.39
5672 He 111 H [TT+AX]
5673 He 111 H [TT+AY]
5674 He 111 H [TT+AZ] ATG Einflug 14.12.39
-------------------------------------------
5675 He 111 H [TU+AA]
5676 He 111 H [TU+AB]
5677 He 111 H [TU+AC]
5678 He 111 H [TU+AD] ATG Einflug 14.12.39
5679 He 111 H [TU+AE]
5678 He 111 H [TU+AF]
5679 He 111 H [TU+AG]
5682 He 111 H-3 [TU+AH] ATG plate Abn. 12.39 (manufacturing month)

5683 He 111 H [TU+AI] ATG Einflug 24.01.40
5684 He 111 H [TU+AJ]
5685 He 111 H [TU+AK]
5686 He 111 H [TU+AL] ATG Einflug 02.02.40
5687 He 111 H [TU+AM]
5688 He 111 H [TU+AN]
5689 He 111 H [TU+AO]
5690 He 111 H [TU+AP] ATG Einflug 23.02.40
------------------------------------------
5691 He 111 H [NH+NJ] ATG Einflug 23.02.40
------------------------------------------
5692 He 111 H [TU+AQ]
5693 He 111 H [TU+AR] ATG Einflug 26.02.40
5694 He 111 H [TU+AS]
5695 He 111 H [TU+AT] ATG Einflug 26.02.40
5696 He 111 H [TU+AU] ATG Einflug 08.03.40
-------------------------------------------
5697 He 111 H [TU+AW] ATG (21.03.40)
----
5701 He 111 H [NG+JL] ATG (10.04.40)
5702 He 111 H [NG+IM]
5703 He 111 H [NG+iN] ATG (10.04.40)
etc.

Again great thanks to all.
ed
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Old 15th August 2010, 19:36
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Ju 88 in Italy, July 1940

Plate from H-3 5682 http://ktsorens.tihlde.org/flyvrak/mortensjord.html
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Old 15th August 2010, 23:08
RT RT is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Ju 88 in Italy, July 1940

Indeed a lot of here to learn from shared info, Ju52 GS+AM has a STKZ used by Erpr. Stelle Rechlin, but as he was build bef. autumn 1939 it is not possible to get it from other Ju52 in the serie GS+AL/1369 GS+AO/4027 GS+AQ/5035 GS+AU/5353 GS+AW/5650 GS+AX/5848 GS+AY/5885
Probably a figure betw. 1370 nd 4026...

Remi
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