451st BG B-24 details of loss

[Alex Smart]

Hi Stig,
Thanks for the update regarding 42-78165.
Had another look in the Schiffer book and found the following, also under the 724 BS section.
Quote -
42-51590estiny's Tot: Arrived August 27,1944, to replace 42-78165.
Crashes near Bologna,Italy, April 24th 1945. Original Pilot Gerald Apple. Battle number 24.

So 42-51590 replaced 42-78165 from 27th August 1944 and crashed April 24th,1945.

And as I have already put in my earlier post, 42-78165 Arrived July 1944, was damaged by fire and was Salvaged August 23rd 1944 which fits the narrative od being replaced by 42-51590 from the 27th August 1944.

Joe B's page has 42-78165 Salvaged 24th May, 44 same as you give for the 451st's webpage.

Alex

[Stig Jarlevik]

Alex

Luckily Geoffrey Sinclair could read the USAAF IARC of 42-78165 as follows (I don't have the card
myself)
"Departed US 27 or 28 March 1944, 15th AF 14 April, lost 24 May"

It is possible the book you quote (which I don't have) has found different data in 451BG files,
no idea, but the above is the official version on the aircraft's record card.

Cheers
Stig

[Alex Smart]

Hi Stig,
Have sent you an email ,should have 42-78165 and 42-51590.
Alex

[Stig Jarlevik]

Got it Alex

As you can see, that is what the IARC says. Initially condemned 24 May and next line condemned aka salvaged 25 May 1944

Cheers
Stig

[Russell]

Hi

All,

More 451st BG queries.

On 5th April 1944 451st had a B-24 crash on take-off, which killed at least 9 of the crew. There is a photo of the wreck on the web. However, the aircraft serial and the crew names are not to be found, at least by me. Also, the Group mission report, the source of the fact there was a crash, notes a returning B-24 crash landed. I do not know who these guys or the serial was either. I dont not believe it was Wolf Wagon flown by John O'Connor which landed, note not crash landed, with 385 holes in it and was written off as not worth repairing. Thoughts welcomed,

Regards

Russell

[Leendert]

Website Honorstates.org provides these nine names for a 451st BG accident in Italy on 5 April 1944:

"We identified 9 casualties in our archive related to the #00-B24 04051944 incident on April 5, 1944.
◼Willard L Cotton :: Pilot
◼James L Crowe :: Nose Gunner
◼Joseph A Esposito :: Engineer
◼Ernest G Graf :: Navigator
◼Sol Marcus :: Tail Gunner
◼Robert E McGaffic :: Bombardier
◼Robert E Quisenberry :: Co-Pilot
◼Charles H Trimmer :: Waist Gunner
◼James D White :: Turret Gunner

All credits to that website. Individual details (rank, crew position, ASN/O-number, hometown...) can be looked up there.

A shortcut here: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...llard-l-cotton

Note there was one survivor.

There is a MACR 15167 for this accident: https://www.451st.org/MACRs/451st%20...20Combined.pdf

Regards,
Leendert

[Stig Jarlevik]

Our friend Geoffrey Sinclair wishes to add this

4 April 1945, By the time the reports reached AFHQ the numbers were 24 effective, 4 non effective, 6 non sorties, 1 missing, 4 destroyed, 1 damaged by enemy aircraft, 3 damaged by flak, claims for 9-5-1 Bf109, 2-3-0 Fw190 and 1-1-0 Ju88.

Cheers
Stig

[Russell]

Thanks Leendert and Stig, most helpful

Russell

[Stig Jarlevik]

Not me Russell, Geoffrey!

Cheers
Stig