Petsamo and kirkenes raids 30/7/1941

[Alex Smart]

Hi,
May I wish you ALL a Happy New year.
My first questions for 2006 are -

Losses from HMS Furious and HMS Victorious on the 30/7/1941.
Furious lost 1 Albacore and 2 Fulmar.
Victorious lost 11 Albacore and 2 Fulmar.

Question 1/.
What were the serial numbers of the aircraft that were lost ?
( I do have some but not all).

I understand that Russian Forces were in action over Petsamo and perhaps Kirkenes on the 30th also.
Some of those Russian Squadrons used Hurricanes.

Question 2/.
What if any Russian aircraft were lost either to combat or flak over these combat areas on the 30th ?

Thanks

Alex

[odybvig]

Hello again Alex

According to Admiral Polarküste:
Major attack on Kirkenes with 30 - 40 aircraft then secondary attack on Petsamo. Mainly english aircraft (hurricane and swordfish). In Kirkenes no german vessel sunk, only minor damage. In Petsamo one norwegian vessel (Rodvaer) sunk.
31 aircraft shoot down. 25 by fighters, rest by Flak
17 aircrew saved. Orders from HMS Victorius was found on aircrew
Aircrew confirmed start from carrier


Best
Olve Dybvig

[Alex Smart]

Hello Olve,

Happy New Year.

From what I have.

Albacore aircraft lost totaled 12
Fulmar aircraft lost totaled 4
Total lost = 16 aircraft
I also have at least 1 Swordfish reported damaged on return to ship.
31 aircraft may well have been claimed at the time, mostly by fighters.

Crews were another story, Captured by the Germans, 25 became POW, while some 17 were killed. 3 made it ashore and 2 days later were picked up by the Russians. A total of 45 men from a Strike force of at least 70 from Furious and 81 from Victorious. Almost a third of the force lost.

Thanks for responce

Alex

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Details on the losses may be found on the "Norway in WWII" forum.

The thread is there http://f16.parsimony.net/forum28300/messages/830.htm.

Not all serial numbers are given but all crew are.

[Darius]

Hello,

look also at
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/41-07.htm

and

http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg...arrierraid.htm


Greetings

Darius

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Sovites did send a see assult (Ozierko Bay) on the German back on 29 VII 1941. It was divesion attack because Germans troops had began to attack the Murmansk.
In this time Soviet could use for air support mainly 72. SAP of NF and 145., 147. IAP, 137. BAP of 14. Army aviations.

There were not so called tightly co-ordiation in this FAA/ VVS RKKA air attacks.
FAA planes were attacked by Me 109s, Me 110s of I/JG 77. German fighters had claimed 17 victories. LW had lost in FAA attrack: 1 Me 110 of 1.(Z)/JG 77 and 1 Ju 87 of 12. (St)/LG 1. In Kirkenes were hit and sunk 2 ships and the next 2 were dameged.

RAF did sent 151. Wing and Hurricanes a few weeks later. RAF did begin to create whole 151. WING on 29 VII 1941 on Isle. The Bristish Hurricanes had come to Murmansk and Archangielsk on 31 VIII -1 IX 1941.

Soviet did beging to fly on Hurricanes in IX 1941. The first Soviet regiment (78. IAP of NF) did beging to use/fly HCs in mid October 1941. They had used the 33 HCs of ex-151. WING planes.

Soviet VVS (navy and army aviation) had supported own land forces on the frontline. So they could attacked assulting German land troops, which had been moving towards Murmansk or support own assult forces.

Anyway Soviet had very bad command (air, navy) and they could not overcame/win having much bigger air and navy forces with much more smaller German air and navy forces. Soviet had in this time numericaly suppriority and Soviet planes were not so bad if you know that German had used Me 109 E-1, E-3, Me 110 D and also slowly Ju 87 B. There was of course Ju 88 A-5, A-6 in 3., 6./ KG 30.
72. SAP had I-16 typ 24 (M-63 engine) made mainly in 1940. So it was quite moder fighter.

Regards
Mirek Wawrzyński

PS
In 2000 I had written a story about 151. Wing RAF over Murmansk (Militaria i Fakty no 5-6/2000) and all this data coming from this material. All text in Polish no English.

[odybvig]

According to German sources, no ships was sunk in Kirkenes at this day

Source: Admiral Polarküste

Olve Dybvig
www.luftwaffe.no

[James A Pratt III]

The Ju 87 was shot down by an Albacore. The type's only air victory. Also on 31 July 1941 a DO-18 of 3/KuGr 906 was shot down by two Sea Hurricanes from 880 Sqn off HMS Furious while flying CAP for the force. This was the Sea Hurricane's first victory. I believe someone asked about the fate of this aircraft awhile back on this site. Sources: Send Her Victorious and the site Luftwaffe over Norway.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

The losses in the harbour are also given in:
Paul Kemp, Convoy! Drama in Arctic Waters, Cassello&co, London 1993/2000.
So we have quite different data of losses-?.
British v. German even "50" years after the battle -?.

Alex where do you came from your data about FAA's losses over harbours?

Regards,
Mirek W

[Alex Smart]

Hi,
Serial numbers of the Hurricane's wanted.
Have Air Brit Book Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945.
Most if not all details from there.

Hurricane pilots names re the Do-18 were -
L/C. F.E.C.Judd and S/L. R.B. Haworth.

Source for losses is from the same book, and some details fro Squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm. and also the FAA web page which does not have All but most of the names of crews IIRC.

Alex