Fw-190 loss, 13 Oct 44

[Eagle0025]

Hello all,

I am trying to help a friend, Bob Milliken, identify the Fw-190 kill he got while on a mission with the 429th FS, 474th FG on 13 Oct 44. Bob said they tangled with a group of Fw-190s SSW of Cologne in the mid to late morning that day. I figure I would ask the forum since I get really good answers here. I will provide additional information on this mission later, but at least I wanted to get the basic information out there. Bob said he also remembers flying over the wreck and said it had crashed in a courtyard right next to a house with the tail of the Fw-190 sticking straight up. Would appreciate any help. Even a listing of known Fw190 losses for 13 Oct 44 would be a good start. Many thanks in advance.

Cheers, Gary Koch (474FG Association Historian)

[Erich]

good evening Gary

it appears that at least Fw 190A gruppe the II./JG 26 took on the 474th as well as Jugs of the 368th fg on the 13th of October 44.

am I right that the 428th fs lost 3 P-38's this date but shot down 6 or was the 6 total for all of the 474thfg ?

Erich ~

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi

The following losses were listed due to enemy action on this date:

I./J.G.2
1 aircraft missing (category 1)
1 aircraft destroyed in aerial combat (category 4)

II./J.G.2
1 aircraft damaged in aerial combat (category 6)

II./J.G.26
1 aircraft destroyed in aerial combat (category 4)

IV./J.G.51
1 aircraft missing (category 1)
1 aircraft damaged in aerial combat (category 7)

II./J.G.53
1 aircraft destroyed in aerial combat (category 4)

III./J.G.53
1 aircraft destroyed in aerial combat (category 4)

I./J.G.77
1 aircraft destroyed in aerial combat (category 4)


If we strip away the Bf 109's we are left with the following possibilities for a match:

I./J.G.2
1 aircraft missing (category 1)
1 aircraft destroyed in aerial combat (category 4)

II./J.G.2
1 aircraft damaged in aerial combat (category 6)

II./J.G.26
1 aircraft destroyed in aerial combat (category 4)


Of these, the only loss not having a Namentliche Verlustemeldung (thus pilot wounded, missing or killed) would be the II./J.G.2 loss

I guess some people more involved in JG 26 and/or JG 2 research will pull details on the three with a personnel loss record out of their hat quite fast

Regards,
Andreas B

[Peglar]

JG 2 Losses 13. Oktober 1944

Uffz Jörg Klotz MIA Aachen, P 38
Olt. Karl Fröhlich KIA Winterscheid P 38
OG Hermann Riedel KIA Much P 38
Uffz Karl Knospe KIA Niederelben P 38

Greetings Peglar

[Eagle0025]

Hello all,

Many thanks for the quick and informative responses. This will give me a start and a good direction to proceed. Keep up the great work!

Cheers, Gary

[Eagle0025]

Hello again,

I apologize Erich for not answering your question. The 474th did incur 3 losses on 13 Oct 44. Lt. Dick Holt (428FS) was shot down near Much-Birkenbachshohe, Germany and was KIA. He was likely the victim of Hptm. Addie Glunz, Kap. 6/JG26. Lt. Charles Heckel (428FS) mid-air collided with Lt. Col Henry Darling and both were forced to bail out over Schonberg-Siegkreis, Germany. They landed OK but were taken POW.

The official kill credits for the 474th FG that day were:
428FS - 2 kills
429FS - 5 kills
430FS - 3 kills
474FG - 1 kill (Lt Col. Darling)

As for the 13 Oct 44 Fw190 losses, the II./JG26 and II./JG53 losses were to P-47s and can be ruled out. The III./JG53 loss is confusing as Jochen Prien's outstanding history of JG53 shows III Gruppe flying no missions 11-15 Oct 44. I am still checking on the I./JG77 loss and the IV./JG51 loss, but it appears the JG2 losses may be my best candidates as the locations of the shootdowns match up in the general area of Bob Milliken's account and the fact they were to P-38s.

Question for Peglar: Do you have the time of day of the JG2 losses? Any other details on these losses such as precise crash sites?

Again, thanks for all of your help. It means a lot to Bob Milliken who is very, very appreciative.

Cheers, Gary

[Erich]

thanks for the in-depth reply Gary........

E ~

[Andreas Brekken]

Wow!! Finally! Even if he is a Lt.Col. this definitely has to be the infamous Captain Darling from Blackadder...

Was the commanding officer of 474th a General Melchett at any time?



Andreas B

[Peglar]

Garry, you have a PM. Greetings Peglar

[Eagle0025]

Andreas,

There was no Gen. Melchett that commanded the 474th FG during WWII. The group was lead by Col. Clinton Wasem, then Col. Earl Hedlund. My father and Hedlund were close friends as my father often flew as Hedlund's wingman.

I had not heard the story of "Captain Darling from Black Adder". Can you tell me more?

Thanks, Gary