103 MU at Aboukir

[stefaan]

Hi.
During my research for SAAF at War I spoke to a number of pilots that knew of these modified Spits.
They stated that it was a flight from some unit that seconded these Spitfires to sqdns that needed them to get rid of high altitude Ju's that did recces over certain areas.That Sqdn would then get sent these Spits untill the Ju's were shot down, or stopped the recce runs.
on we have fount 2 Spits that cropped up in War Diaries of 1,41,9 SAAT Sqdns.
Serials MH993 and MA792.
A photo of MH993 is on page 47. These ones with 41 sqdn were based at St Jean de Acra.
A pilot from 9 SAAF sqdn said he flew it as well, but I am waiting to get his logbook to get the serials.
Hope it helps
Stefaan

[Brian]

Hi Frank

Thanks for the NA reference - will check it out during my next visit.

Trust you are well.
Cheers
Brian

[Graham Boak]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

Sounds strange to me though, since their foremost task after all was to maintain the aeroplanes in an as fit shape as possible, that is to overhaul them and send them back to operational units. I can fully understand that they were capable of minor modifications as might be needed, but somehow my feeling is that the British didn't do a lot of major modifications in the field.
Stig

In this case, you must add the receipt of aircraft into the theatre, and adoption of specific modifications (including paint schemes) that had been found desirable on local operations but had not (yet?) worked their way onto production lines in the UK. Given that production lines were under pressure to standardise production to maximise numbers, such a unit would (and did) prove particularly valuable.

One American equivalent would be the 8th AF Base Aerial Depots at Burtonwood and Warton.

Your feeling certainly reflects what I've encountered, with some notable exceptions, but I think you have to distinguish "in the field" from "in theatre".

[VoyTech]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

my feeling is that the British didn't do a lot of major modifications in the field.

Feelings are hard to discuss with. I guess we'd have to start by defining 'major'. When you're in the desert even standard maintenance procedures may become 'major', to say nothing about modifications.

I still find the formation of a combat flight within a MU (even if attached to a squadron) to tackle high altitude reconnaissance aeroplanes to be highly irregular even if they were used to modify aeroplanes. Why was not the flight formed within or as an extension of a regular combat squadron??

I guess the major problem they faced was lack of any prescribed modification procedure to apply, so it was more a matter of experimenting "do this, see if it works, if it doesn't try that, see if it works" an so on. If you want to do it 'highly regular', you have to modify and send to an operational unit; unit finds it doesn't work and sends back to the MU with a memo on what doesn't work; MU tries to work out what the hell they meant in their memo, does what they think is right and sends back to operational unit; and back to stage one. This way it's highly likely you will not get the system work in the short time you need it to. As the MU was actually in the area of operations (the German high altitude reconnaissance was flown over or near it) it was logical to give it the task of "developing the operationally capable high altitude fighter" (well within its scope as an engineering unit) and the task inevitably included actual flying trials (which, incidentally, involved shooting down or damaging some e/a).
BTW, was the 'high altitude flight' an official (sub)unit name or a term used in retrospect?

[Aussie7]

Guys, it is good to see that there is quite a bit of interest in the High Altitude Flight. My interest started when researching the activities of 451 Sqn RAAF, which like most defensive Hurricane sqn had on strength 3 or 4 Spit V's during 1943 to combat German recon a/c. On several occasions the Spitfires and pilots were detached to other units such as 103 MU and 127 Sqn.

Brian, I have found much the same claims as you except:
1. P/O Wilson's claim was on 26 Jul 42 (Aces High - AH), although this seems a little odd as I thought the Flt only had 3 pilots in 1942 - F/O Reynolds, P/O Genders & P/O Gold.
2. 1 Ju88 dam on 15 Jun 43 by F/L Cooper-Slipper (AH).
3. The 16 Sep 43 claim was by F/O McQueen RAAF (Those Other Eagles - TOE).
4. 1 Me109 dam on 13 Aug 43 and 1 Me109 conf on 24 Aug 43 by S/L JG West RNZAF (TOE).
5. F/O HV Freckleton RAAF with P/O AF Arnel RAAF (attch fron 451 Sqn) as his No2 claimed a Ju86 conf on 4 Jul 43 (info from several Aussie books/diaries and NAA). However is it possible that this the E/A shared with 80 Sqn on 2 Jul 43 ?

JohnE, the 451 Sqn ORB is insistant that although F/O Purdy's claim occured whilst he was attached to 103 MU it was credited to his parent Sqn.

Ian (Adelaide)

[John Beaman]

Pages 135 and 136 of Shores' Fighters Over The Desert talks about this flight and the modifications they made to both Hurricane 2Bs and Spitfire Vs of 80 and 1 SAAF Squadrons as Stefaan mentions.

Stefaan, I do not have your book. Does the photo show the 4-bladed prop and 2 x .50 cal MGs?

[stefaan]

Hi John.
It shows the 4 bladed prop and one barrel on the left wing, as the photo is taken from left, bit behind.
Stefaan

[Birgir Thorisson]

According to Kenneth "Bing" Cross, officer commanding 219 group, the unit charged with air defence of Egypt, it was his operation, and carried out by test pilots at Abukir, using progressively modified Spitfires. Cross had very high opinion of the MU 103, they even improved the Merlin engine for the project!!!
It is noteworthy that Cross himself was an ex-test pilot there. That is to say, a year peviously, when 219 group was 252 wing, with himself in command, he kept himself in flying practice by "moonligthing" as a test pilot at Abukir.

Birgir Thorisson

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Guys

Looks like the further away from Britain the action was, the more important the actual MUs became. They might even warrant the epitath Modification Units...

Also looks like 103 MU in Egypt was a big one, perhaps the biggest in the ME? As such it was perhaps not unusual for it to have a far better tool park than most other designated units.

Finally one last question (well repeat really), was there any other MU forming special combat units like this and claiming victories? I have never come across any from the Home Country, but perhaps there were some more in the ME and/or FE??

Cheers
Stig

[Birgir Thorisson]

According to then Group Captain Cross, Aboukir was the largest RAF depot in the Middle East, and handled all types of aircraft. (He spells it Abu Sueir on this page, but seems to be talking of the same place which elsewhere in the book is spelled Aboukir.)
The bulk of the workforce was civilians, Maltese being most numerous, then Greeks, and in fact all sorts of nationalities. The supervising staff was RAF. (This from his autobiography, "Straight and level".)

There are interesting discrepencies between his account of the interceptions, and an account that appeared in 1978 in the magazine "Air Pictorial" about stratospheric raiders, by Christopher Argyle.

The most striking was that according to both, Genders had to bail out into the sea after shooting down the second Ju 86. Cross states that he was rescued almost at once by an egyptian boat. According to Argyle, Genders had to swim for 23 hours to the shore, and then walk back to Aboukir.

I am also pretty certain that the Greenborough crowd published somewhere a detailed article about the spitfire modifications in Aboukir, but haven´t been able to locate it in my stash of old Air Enthusiast/Air International magazines. (I have very little after 1985).

Birgir Thorisson.