5./NJG 4, Oblt. SCHULTE, 26 or 27.07.1944

[BABIN]

Hello,

The Tony Woods Luftwaffe claims list gives the following precisions concerning a claim of Oblt SCHULTE, from 5./NJG 4 :

26.07.44 ( I presume night 25/26.07), 4 mot. Flzg. 04 Ost N/FG at 4000 m. (St Sauveur) 00:41 Film C. 2027 Anerk : Nr 8


I located the crash of the Lancaster LM 484 from 619 Sqdn during the night 26/27.07.1944 at MAISONTIERS, close to the small town of "St SAUVEUR" (center of France) and I express the hypothesis that this Lancaster could be the 4 engines aircraft claimed by Oblt. SCHULTE ... but :

- there is a discrepancy (one day) between the date of the Oblt. SCHULTE's claim and the date of the crash of the Lancaster ; question : what is the real date of this claim ? night of 25/26.07 or night 26/27.07.1944 ?

- there are ... 43 towns, in France, whose name is St. SAUVEUR ; question : which is the "St SAUVEUR" of the SCHULTE's claim ?

And I take the liberty to correct a (slight) mistake in the page 354 of the CHORLEY "Bomber Commands losses 1944" : the Lancaster LM 484 from 619 Sqdn didn't crash "near St LOUP (Rhône)" as Mr CHORLEY wrote, but, as I said above, at MAISONTIERS, in the french region of "Deux-Sèvres" ... close to St SAUVEUR ... and close to an other St LOUP (St LOUP-LARMAIRE) ... and there are 31 "St LOUP" in France ! what explains the mix up of Mr. CHORLEY.

Thank you in advance for any help about this claim of Oblt. SCHULTE

Pierre BABIN

[dahiot daniel]

Sans doute cela Pierre !


25-26/07/44, mission sur Givors. Loss Lancaster LM484.

JOSEPH HARRY GILLIVER - born 31 August 1913. Married Margaret Aileen HOSKINS 4 July 1942. They had one daughter. Was a bell ringer at Enderby Church. Served in WWII in the Royal Air Force. Trained in Canada. First and last official flight was in a Lancaster bomber. Lancaster LM484 of 619 Squadron based at Royal Air Force Dunholme Lodge in Lincolnshire. Aircraft took off at 21.26 hours on 26th July 1944 to attack Givor Railway Centre and Junction. 161 Lancasters and 1 Mosquito's attacked between 01.45 and 02.29 hours from 3,500/8,000 feet, dropping approximately 610 tons of H.E. and 8 x 1000lb marker bombs. A number of flares were also dropped. Severe thunderstorms, lightning and rain prevented marking the Northern attack point. Attack was therefore directed on the Southern point.
Of the 187 aircraft involved, four Lancasters and two Mosqitos are missing. The Lancaster bomber in which Joseph Gilliver was flying was shot down at 00.46 hours on 27th July 1944 by night fighters whilst returning to base. The aircraft crashed 5 km NE of Maisontiers in the neighbourhood of Parthenay in SW France. Joseph Gilliver was buried with six crew members in Maisontiers Communal Cemetery. He was later re-interred in Pornic British Cemetery.

Dan