Macchis VS P38s 13 July 1943.

[Ludovico Slongo]

I'm trying to find out more details regarding an air combat between american P38s and Italian Macchis of 4° Stormo.

On the afternoon (unknown hour) of 13 July 1943 a formation of eight Macchis of 4° Stormo (possibly 9° Gruppo) composed by four MC 202s and four MC 205Vs and led by Capitano Giulio Reiner scrambled from the airstrip of Finocchiara and intercepted a reportedly six P38s with a top cover of twelve more P38s. The lower American planes looked as if they were fighter-bombers targeting the road north of Gela.
Reiner led his planes in a quick attack of the "fighter bombers" and claimed personally one of them that he saw exploding hitting the ground 15 kilometers north of Gela while the pilot was able to bale out.
In the meantime the upper section of P38s joyned the combat starting a confused dogfight that obliged the Macchis to retreat. The Italians came back to Finocchiara and didn't record any loss, only the plane of Reiner was damaged in the engine and the tail while Reiner himself suffered a broken tympanum caused by a sharp dive that he had performed while following another Lightning.
I'm wondering if somebody is able to identify the American unit(s) involved in this combat and -maybe- add some more details (or correct) the above description.
Thanks in advance.
Ludovico.

[Andy Fletcher]

Hi Ludovico,

I believe Reiner was C/O 73ª Sqd/9º Gruppo/4º Stormo CT at the time of this engagement.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

[Håkan]

Hello Ludovico,

The only P-38 claims in this theatre on this day are one Bf109, one prob. Bf109 and one damaged Bf109, all three claimed at 17:15 over Agira by the 48th FS.

Best wishes/Håkan

[veltro]

Of the other two remaining USAAF units in the MTO equipped with the P-38, neither 1st FG nor 82nd FG reported any combat or loss on 13 July 1943.

Thus, considering that Agira is in Sicily (NE of Enna), and that in the combat the 14th FG lost a P-38 (s/n 42-13212), the 14th FG could well be the unit involved.

The only problem is that the place of the combat (accordingly to Allied reports) and the place where Reiner said to have shot down the e/a are quite far from each other, more than 150 Km...

I think this is a discrepancy that should lead to caution in "trying to make ends meet", as there are too little data available to determine with certainty what really happened.

IMHO, of course...

HTH, all the best

Ferdinando D'Amico

[Ludovico Slongo]

First of all, thank you very much Andy, Hakan and Ferdinando -altough with a lot of things still to clarify (I agree with you)- some new (to me) pieces of info has come to light. After receiving your info I went back to my books and I collected some additional pieces of information. Inside the classic history of 4° Stormo: "Quelli del Cavallino Rampante" -the source from which I extracted the description of the combat- I found that, back from the above mentioned combat, Reiner received order to retreat to Rome-Ciampino with his men, it was 18.00, an hour still consistent with a previous combat at 17.15 (even if I really don't know if the Italians and the Allied used the same timeline to record the hours of their missions).
A second data was that during the day additional P38s were claimed at unknown hours and places by Oblt. Frielinghaus of IV/JG 3 and Obfw. Johann Pichler of 7/JG 77 -this was extracted by "Spitfires over Sicily".
Here it is extremely interesting to see if the Messerschmitt's claims could better match the only known (thanks to Ferdinando) American loss and I hope that Mr. Cull or some other Luftwaffe expert could help. As a very last note, I took a map of Sicily where I could see that even if by ordinary road the distance between Gela and Agira is in excess of 100 km, in straight line the distance is 74 km (Agira is NNE of Gela) so a place 15km north of Gela is around 60 km from Agira, possibly still too much ... However thanks again for your help.
Ludovico.