Friendly fire WWII

[Juha]

Hello BIGVERN1966
Harrison gives some serials (and crews) to those Fireflies that operated against V-1s and their carriers. There is also a photo on page 54 with caption IIRC that this plane of 746 is like those used against He 111/V-1 combinations.

HTH
Juha

[Brian]

Hi guys - thanks.

Richard: could Lt (GL) Davies' pilot have been Lt John Armour RM? This pair flew together earlier and shot down a Do217 while flying a Mosquito of NFIS.

Cheers
Brian

[BIGVERN1966]

Originally Posted by Brian

Hi guys - thanks.

Richard: could Lt (GL) Davies' pilot have been Lt John Armour RM? This pair flew together earlier and shot down a Do217 while flying a Mosquito of NFIS.

Cheers
Brian

Brian / Juha

Quote from Coltishall F540 ORB for Firefly NF 1 v He111 / V1 Action on 13.12.44

A Firefly of N.F.I.U., Ford, operating from Coltishall, Lt (Eneale 'best guess at the name')and Lt. Davies, were scrambled at 1826 hours under Hopton (CHL radar 'my quote') control and obtained three or four contacts, one of which was followed and a flying bomb seen, followed by a visual on the E/A for three or four minutes in very bad visibility. A one-second burst was given from 1,000 feet, but the aircraft disappeared into cloud and was lost, no results being observed. The contact was regained at one mile range and the E/A followed, obtaining intermittent visuals in bad weather to very near the enemy coast when, unfortunately engine trouble developed and the Firefly was compelled to return to base, landing at 2020 hours.

Juha, does any of this match up with anything the Harrison book?


Brian, hope this can be of some help

Richard

[Juha]

Hello BIGVERN1966
Harrison p. 54 on 12/13 Dec. Lt Jimmy Kneale with Lt G. L. Davies DSC, the serial is not clearly stated (at least I cannot say that am 100% sure but it’s almost midnight here and I have spent 12 hours in archives and library today), but most probably MB419 (BTW the photo is of MB564 and credit of it is given to Lt/Cdr J. H. Kneale)
Then “He recalls the trip: ‘Only on one occasion was a Firefly NF1s cannon fired after a long ASH controlled pursuit in low-lying thick cloud which prevented any visual identification of the target. In the absence of a blind-firing facility this was no more than opportunist attempt, and no result were claimed.’”

HTH
Juha

Ps and thanks for the text from the Coltishall ORB.

[BIGVERN1966]

Originally Posted by Juha

Hello BIGVERN1966
Harrison p. 54 on 12/13 Dec. Lt Jimmy Kneale with Lt G. L. Davies DSC, the serial is not clearly stated (at least I cannot say that am 100% sure but it’s almost midnight here and I have spent 12 hours in archives and library today), but most probably MB419 (BTW the photo is of MB564 and credit of it is given to Lt/Cdr J. H. Kneale)
Then “He recalls the trip: ‘Only on one occasion was a Firefly NF1s cannon fired after a long ASH controlled pursuit in low-lying thick cloud which prevented any visual identification of the target. In the absence of a blind-firing facility this was no more than opportunist attempt, and no result were claimed.’”

HTH
Juha

Ps and thanks for the text from the Coltishall ORB.

-OFF Topic - should be on V - 1 Flying Bomb countermeasures

Juha

A very big thanks in return. If you could confirm that Serial at a better time of day, tomorrow I've be very greatful. One question about the photo, is the Firefly in normal RN colours for the time, or is it in RAF Night Fighter scheme of Medium Sea Grey and Dark Green (which I know some NF1's were painted in post war).

Richard

[mhuxt]

Originally Posted by Brian

Hi guys - thanks.

Richard: could Lt (GL) Davies' pilot have been Lt John Armour RM? This pair flew together earlier and shot down a Do217 while flying a Mosquito of NFIS.

Cheers
Brian

Hi Brian:

Do you have a date for the Do 217 claim?

Cheers,

Mark

[Frank Olynyk]

For Lt. John Ormonde Armour (RM), I have a damaged Ju-88 on Feb 24, 1944 at 2205 hours, in the Basingstoke area, in a Mosquito XII -- serial not given; his radar operator was Lt. William Gray Aitken Shepherd (RN). On July 15, 1944 at 0145 hours he was credited with a Do-217 destroyed, 10 m W of Antwerp, in a Mosquito XIII, again no serial; this time his radar operator was Lt. P R V Wheeler (RNVR) (I must have neglected to look him up in the Navy List). Combat reports for both exist in Air 50/469, and they are listed in the weekly FC Combats and Casualty lists.

Frank.

[Juha]

Yes, it seems pretty sure that it was MB419. Kneale had flown in between a scramble in DT933 on the night of 24/25.11. but had returned (I interpret that to Coltishall) in his usual plane MB419 on night of 9/10.12. but there was no activity on that nigh. Then he and Davies had the mission on 12./13.12.

On the picture, sorry I remembered wrongly, according to the caption the plane in photo is the same type as those used by 746 against He 111 V-1 carriers, so it merely shows what a NF1 looked alike. Anyway the two upper colours are both rather dark. I have not paid much notice on camos of RAF planes, so anyway I’m not a good judge of the colours showed on b/w photos.

HTH
Juha

[mhuxt]

Many thanks for the information Frank - on the off chance I might push my luck with you, I'm posting another thread re: a Luftwaffe loss on 24 July 1944. If you're able to have a look, I'd be most grateful.

[Juha]

I had a little more time to study the subject today.
the whole caption reads as “Firefly NF1 MB564 of No 746 Squadron in 1945. This was the type 746 used for their night interceptions of flying bomb-carrying He IIIs(sic.) in late 1944.”
For other readers, according to Harrison 746 Sqn was NFIU.

On colours, the two upper colours are rather dark and the difference of their darknesses is clearly less than the difference in those b/w photos that I have seen on for ex. 2 TAF and ADGB Spitfires in 44.

HTH
Juha