Bf 109G-4 Reconnaissance Pilot - Hans Buchwald

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Jim P.

I suppose we can now record the 8-Jun-43 loss as 'white 17'?

Bf 109F-2, 6689, Sauer, Fw. Kurt, 9, 9., JG 53, gelbe, 4 + |, , , 27-Jun-41, Reported lost due to Luftkampf. Pilot returned., , Lfl.2/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VI.2, p.169; Prien, JG 53, I, p.413, , bei Molodeczno, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109F-2, 6689, Cernhoff, Ltn. Reinhard, , , NAGr. 4, , , , , 08-Jun-43, WIA due to enemy fighters., , Ostfront, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #10)-Vol.18, , nordöstlich Ryschkowo, 60%, F, , ,
Bf 109F-2, 6689, n.n., , , JGr.Ost, , , , , 31-Oct-43, Take-off accident., , FR, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23, , Fl.Pl. St. Jean d'Angely, 30%, H, , ,

Hello all,

Lost list isn't my cup of tea.. But sorry to stop this nice conversation just to point that 100%.
Doesn't mean the plane was 100% destroyed?.. And of course to flew back to be 60% destroyed two years later....

I really need an explanation, please.

Franck.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys

Interesting website and info:

The NAGr 4 losses are listed as follows in the GenQu lists:


Buchwald:
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=125936


Cernhoff:
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=131266


reinholdcernhoff - the source for the information are the Generalquartiermeister loss record.

In order to see if the name Reinhard was erronously recorded you as a relative could contact the WASt in Berlin and ask for information on the loss of Cernhoff, if the information you get in return is stating that the name the unit used for the reporting was Reinhold this would then be only one of very many names with erronous spelling in the GenQu documents.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Franck

We have to take into account the constant change in frontlines when we discuss 100% losses.

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=139322

An aircraft reported as missing, with the pilot returning later as in the case of Sauer is a very common occurence, and the explanation equally simple; for the Luftwaffe this aircraft would be considered as a 100% loss, since Fw. Sauer ended up in enemy territory, but was able to return to own frontlines. After the frontlines changed this aircraft could be recovered and repaired, the damage could probably be minor to a lot of the 100% losses listed in the initial reports filed shortly after Barbarossa, and we will find these aircraft 'lost' several times.

Look at the date, the aircraft was lost shortly after the launch of Barbarossa, in Soviet territory on the loss date, but as we all know the progress of the operation Barbarossa in it's initial stages made the Luftwaffe recovery team able to pick up loads of aircraft reported from the units a 100% losses.

Regards,
Andreas B

[ouidjat]

Hello Andreas,

Bright clear! Thank you.
Regards,

Franck.

[Nokose]

I was hoping that this thread had what I was looking to find but it doesn't. On the 23 July43 two Bf 109G-4 were attacked by a Soviet airacobra. They were supposed to belong to 1./NAGr4. One was shot down and one creashed on landing. Does anyone have anything on these two aircraft?

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=124340

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=124341

Regards,
Andreas B

[Nokose]

Thanks Andreas. I've got a thread on the allied portion hoping for the Soviet pilots full name. Here is what I found on this incident so far two Soviet Airacobras were doing a reconnaissance mission but got separated by dense clouds. Four Bf 109G4 from 1./NAGr4 attacked the Airacobra of Kapitan Povolokin of the 98 GODRAP. He fled into the clouds and the Bf 109s hung around. Povolokin rolled back out after awhile and found two Bf 109 setting point blank. One went down smoking and the other fled. Strange incident that the reconn units of both side would end up in a dogfight. The 98 GODRAP has another pilot who recieved the HSU and on one site it says he has 7 victories but no mention anywhere else about his score.