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Old 13th July 2017, 11:11
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Strange claim in Prien for 9 April 1941

Hello,

I./JG 77 (the second of it) was based in Stavanger-Sola between February 1941 (date of its reformation) to January 1942 (when it became I./JG 5).

According to Prien's book, the first claim of the new Gruppe was claimed on 9 April 1941, an Hurricane shot down by an unknown pilot at an unknown place at 1545 hrs.

Problem is that I don't see how a Stavanger-based Bf 109 can meet a Hurricane on this date.

By checking Ross McNeill's Coastl Command Losses book to see it it could be a PRU Spitfire, I found the following entry:
Blenheim IV V6148 BX-G Op: Roll Patrol
(three crew MIA)
Base Wattisham T/O time: 15:33
Probably shot down by Uffz Schinabeck of I/JG 77 into the North Sea.

Another Blenheim of 254 Sqn was shot down by I.(Z)/JG 77 this day.

A Blenheim is more probable than a Hurricane as I./JG 77's first kill this day, but the name of "Uffz Schinabeck" is probably coming from Tony Wood's file, where the source is listed as "JG 77 List", that I suppose was the older Prien book on JG 77.

But apparently Prien and co change their mind between this old book and the Jadgverbande serie. Maybe because of the hours given (no way a Blenheim taking off from a British base at 1533 hrs could be shot down off Norway 12 minutes later).

Any comment will be appreciated.
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Old 13th July 2017, 19:39
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Strange claim in Prien for 9 April 1941

Laurent

Since I can't find anything regarding I./JG 77 (2nd formation) in Prien's four-volume JG 77 series, I believe this unit had fallen underneath their radar at the time and hence Wood's list must refer to something else.

Checking Mombeek and his JG 5 series of book, he says basically what you say regarding 9 April 1941 but add a ? after this Uffz Schinabeck (the only Schinabeck I can find is a Fw Ignaz Schinabeck but he was never with JG 77/5)

The other Blenheim you mention was shot down by Lt Felix Brandis from either ZG 76 or JG 77 (not sure of his exact unit since two weeks earlier he flew an aircraft marked 2N+BR)

I have no idea why a Hurricane is listed in JFV. The only possible explanation might be a confusion with the Hurricanes claimed by I.(J)/LG 2 on the Balkan front on that day.

Cheers
Stig
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Old 14th July 2017, 01:41
Andrew Arthy Andrew Arthy is offline
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Re: Strange claim in Prien for 9 April 1941

Hi,

From Luftwaffe Lagebericht Nr. 579:

"Jagdabwehr ... In Norwegen zwang sie 1 Bristol-Blenheim zum Abdrehen in die Wolken." This was the only reported incursion in the area of Luftgau Norwegen.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles
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Old 15th July 2017, 16:15
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Strange claim in Prien for 9 April 1941

Thanks to both of you

What is known for sure is that two Blenheims did not return from missions off Norway this day.

From Andrew's quote, it seems that only one was intercepted. Could the claim by Brandis have been confused with I./JG 77 as it was logged under "I.[Z]/JG 77" ? Especially as there is only 10 minutes difference between both known claims (1535 and 1545 hrs).

By the way I checked Tony Wood's file and the source of the claim attributed to unknown flier of 3./JG 77 was "OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 5-1B", while source for Brandis of I.[Z]/JG 77 is "OKL C.2033/I Anerk: Nr."
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