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Old 7th February 2010, 21:46
Rob Romero Rob Romero is offline
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7 Feb 10 -Overclaimers v Reliable Claimers List

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Old 15th May 2012, 16:43
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Re: 7 Feb 10 -Overclaimers v Reliable Claimers List

hello, someone has information about the confimation of these pilots, if there are reliable claimers or severe overclaimers:
GERMAN
267 Otto Kittel (reliable claimer??)
208 Theodor Weissenberger (¿¿??)
189 Max Stotz (reliable claimer??)
178 Johannes Steinhoff (reliable claimer??)
162 Wolf-Dietrich Wilcke
140 Friedrich-Karl 'Tutti' Muller
135 Joachim Muncheberg (reliable claimer??)
133 Alfred Grislawski
125 Dietrich Hrabak
123 Herbert Ihlefeld (reliable claimer??)
122 Wolfgang Tonne (reliable claimer??)
121 Heinz-Wolfgang Schnaufer
114 Werner Schroer (reliable claimer??)
111 Helmut Lent
108 Hans 'Assi' Hahn (reliable claimer??)
105 Günther Lutzow (reliable claimer??)
102 Josef Wurmheller
78 Heinrich Krafft
68 Fritz Losigkeit
63 Gerhard Homuth
59 Hans-Arnold Stahlschmidt
54 Hannes Trautloft (reliable claimer??)
53 Julius Meimberg
44 Heinz Knoke (reliable claimer??)
34 Günther Specht
30 Friedrich-Karl "Nasen" Müller
SPANISH-BLUE STAFFEL----
12 Gonzalo Hevia Alvarez de Quinones
FINLAND----
94 Eino Ilmari Juutilainen
53.5 Eino Antero Lukkanen
42 Olli Puhakka
32 Kyösti Karhila
ROMANIA----
53 Constantine Cantacuzino
52-44 Alexandre Serbanescu
KROATIA----
44 Mato Dukovac
38 Galic Cvitan
JAPAN----
51-39 Satoshi Anabuki
32-18 Takeo Tanimizu
HUNGARY----
34 Dezjö Szentgyörgyi
28 Lajos Toth
26 György Debrödy
Slovakia ----
32 Jan Reznak
28 Izidor Kovaric
ITALY-----
22+14 Teresio Martinoli
21+3 Leonardo Ferrulli (+1 spain)
19 Luigi Gorrini
17+3 Ugo Drago

-------------------ALLIED

POLAND----
22 Stanislaw Skalski
18 Boleslaw Michal Gladych
16.5 Eugeniusz Horbaczewski
CANADA----
31.33 George "Buzz" Beurling
AUSTRALIA----
28.5 Clive "Killer" Caldwell
New Zealand----
27.5 Colin Gray
23 Alan Deere
USA----
40 Richard Bong
28 Francis "Gabby" Gabreski
27 Robert S. Johnson
27 Charles H. McDonald
26.83 George E. Preddy
24 John C. Meyer
21.5 Frederick J. Christensen
17 Ira Casius Kepford
16 George Schwartz Welch
England----
38-34+7 James Edgar "Johnnie" Johnson
28 James Harry "Ginger" Lacey
26.5 Eric Stanley Lock
25 Billy Drake
20 Michael Crossley
South Africa----
18 Johannes Jacobus Le Roux J
RUSSIA----
62 Ivan Nikitovich Kozhedub
56+6-59+6-60+3 Grigori A. Reschkalow
56+6-59+6 Aleksandr Ivanovich Pokryshkin
53+3 Kirill Yevstigneyev Alexeevich
41+17 Vitalii Ivanovich Popkov
19 Georgiy A Bayevskiy
SPANISH in VVS---
35 (27+8) Juan Lario Sanchez
20 Vicente Beltran
FRANCE----
18 Pierre Le Gloan
NORWAY----
14+1 Svein Heglund
IRLAND----
26+6 Brendan Eamonn Fergus Finucane
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Old 16th May 2012, 01:28
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: 7 Feb 10 -Overclaimers v Reliable Claimers List

Another exercise in futility.
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Old 16th May 2012, 03:08
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Juha Juha is offline
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Re: 7 Feb 10 -Overclaimers v Reliable Claimers List

Hello G
On Finns
Juutilainen, fairly inaccurate claimer
Luukkanen, average
Puhakka and Karhila, fairly accurate

Juha
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Old 16th May 2012, 07:11
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: 7 Feb 10 -Overclaimers v Reliable Claimers List

Müncheberg, Schroer(both very honest) and Meimberg were honest, possibly Stotz and Steinhoff also.

Weissenberger, and Wurmheller(especially) were dis-honest. Knoke only had half of his claims confirmed, but I think he was possibly dis-honest. I don't know about Hahn, but judging by his claim pattern, and his association with Jg2 is likely to be dis-honest. I think that Meimberg was one of the few honest Jg2 pilots!

Regards

Johannes
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Old 16th May 2012, 22:34
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Nokose Nokose is offline
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Re: 7 Feb 10 -Overclaimers v Reliable Claimers List

From the little that I've ran across on Hannes Trautloft, he seems to be good claimer but his Spanish Civil War and Polish(?) claims are hard to pin point (I posted a thread trying to determine them).
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Old 18th May 2012, 19:10
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GMichalski GMichalski is offline
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Re: 7 Feb 10 -Overclaimers v Reliable Claimers List

many thanks for the information, with german pilots i only wrong with Wick and Hans Philipp. Hans Assi Hann maybe is a overclaimer ¿?, but someone have he number of the claims aproved by the enemy of these pilots....for example Mölders 33 in Russia-20 confirmed by VVS.......and for the other countries....
regards
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Old 19th May 2012, 06:24
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: 7 Feb 10 -Overclaimers v Reliable Claimers List

Hi With Mölders his last claim over Russia on 15th July 1941 seems never have to been confirmed, reducing his 33 to 32 or !at least)over 60%, which is about correct for an honest claimer i.e about two-thirds actually crash, and as he is alleged to have made dozens more after his flying ban, for which he didn't bother to submit a claim, then I think we can safely say he was an honest guy! In fact if two-thirds of a pilots claims actually crash, then they are honest.....but mistaken, though this could be down to there wingmen actually witnessing the crash! With night fighters it's the crew that confirmed it, and a flamming bomber is obvious.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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Old 20th May 2012, 08:12
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Andreas Brekken Andreas Brekken is offline
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Re: 7 Feb 10 -Overclaimers v Reliable Claimers List

Hi

Just curious - what sources have been use for the lists? Someone must obviously have collected and cross-referenced all losses of both allied and axis air forces with a hitherto unknown degree of accuracy.

As one who has been trying to compile these I would be very interested in including this work in my own research. I am especially interested in the losses of the soviet air force, as such lists covering the entire war in the east on all front areas with aircraft serial numbers, locations and so on has been unavailable.

I naturally assume that this has been done before this list was published on the internet, especially when allied pilotes are listed, as it seems a lot of people are annoyed when their war heroes are listed as unreliable. Several of the names listed have been used as sources for publications that probably should be revised, with notes on their reliability as historical sources.

Regards,
Andreas B
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Old 20th May 2012, 19:09
ahafan ahafan is offline
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Re: 7 Feb 10 -Overclaimers v Reliable Claimers List

On overclaiming''i read in my books-by historiacly accurate endorsed book authors;
fighter and bomber claims.1941-42- the turning point books and many others by such endorsed authors-
one states fight with me 109s one seen with smoke ? and me 109s claimed 4- spifires only 2 were lost-2 force landed. on ..COAST'

.NOW THE GERMAN PILOT's WENT HOME NOT MAKIN THIS AS A THERE CLAIMs..
YET WAS THEY RIGHT FOR THE CLAIMS..??? to be added on there scores...
''GIVEN THAT 2 SPITFIRES FORCE LANDED ON ENGLISH SOIL..FROM THERE BASE..
over claiming surly Not..

Sharon''
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