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  #1  
Old 26th November 2015, 21:30
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Camouflaged Me 262s with white rudders

Gentlemen,

One instance of an unusual occurrence can just be an anomaly. Two such instances can be just a coincidence. However, three or more instances of that occurrence strongly indicates a deliberate pattern.

So far I have found the occurrence of camouflaged Me 262s with white tail rudders in the following instances:

1. V9 W.Nr. 130004 VI+AD and V10 W.Nr. 130005 VI+AE both found derelict at Lechfeld,

2. A-1a W.Nr. 500443 White 5 [later 6] and A-1a "Red 1" [the original British markings on the fuselage over-painted, given serials AM 52 and VH509 and sent to Downsview, Canada] both found at Schleswig-Jager,

3. A-1a W.Nr. 500226 White 4 flown from Saaz to Dedelstorf by Oblt. Walter Bohatsch on 8 May 1945,

4. A-1a W.Nr. 111617 White 9 found derelict beside the autobahn at Hofoldinger Forest,

5. the fuselage of A-1a W.Nr. 170072 found at Oberammergau,

6. A-1a W.Nr. 11173x? White 22 found nosed over at Salzburg-Maxglan,

7. A-1a Black 11 of KG(J) 54? seen on the thread Nice Me 262 of 14 December 2014 started by unikum,

8. two unidentified A-2a's pictured on p. 218 of O'Connell, Production Log, and

9. two unidentified Me 262s seen in the panoramic picture of the aircraft dump at Munchen-Riem.


Is there any explanation, other than hurried repairs, for this deliberate pattern of white, not metal, rudders?

best regards,

Jim Geens

Last edited by Karoband; 26th November 2015 at 21:31. Reason: spelling
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  #2  
Old 27th November 2015, 07:24
PhilippeDM PhilippeDM is offline
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Re: Camouflaged Me 262s with white rudders

Iirc this was mart of the marking of KG51, bur it is from memory as I do not have access to my doc due to an accident...
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Old 27th November 2015, 20:16
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Camouflaged Me 262s with white rudders

Hi Phillippe,

You are right. The Me 262s of 1./KG51 did have the tip of nose and the tip of the tail painted white. However, the above Me 262s have the entire rudder painted white.

best regards,

Jim

p.s. Nick, clearing the browser before posting does work. Thank you.
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Old 29th November 2015, 17:59
PhilippeDM PhilippeDM is offline
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Re: Camouflaged Me 262s with white rudders

Sorry for the type errors on above message: I was in hospital and playing with my phone. Again, white rudders were also used to denote staffelführers, earlier in the war. Stuck in a seat, I do not have hand on my documentation, but I remember pictures of Bf 109s with all white rudders.
This could be in the same vain... Just some thoughts...
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Old 29th November 2015, 19:46
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Camouflaged Me 262s with white rudders

Hi Philippe,

I hope everything turns out OK at the hospital. Thank you for the tip about staffelfuhrers. That may be the answer.

Jim
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Old 30th November 2015, 03:36
Vince Malfara Vince Malfara is offline
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Re: Camouflaged Me 262s with white rudders

Hi Jim

I can't say I've seen a photo of AM 52 with a white rudder. Looking at photos from Obertraubling it would seem that factory fresh manufactured parts were, from what is seen in black and white images, light in color therefore seeming to be white. You do mean the full rudder.
Or do you mean the band of white on the tail?
See the link below for photos of white rudders.

http://s262.photobucket.com/user/Dug...bling.jpg.html

KR

Vince...
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Old 30th November 2015, 17:37
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Camouflaged Me 262s with white rudders

Hi Vince,

I'm talking about the movable rudder attached to the fin.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=39958

The eBay photo in your thread of 15th December 2014 shows the white rudder of AM52 under the overcoat of paint that was applied to the fuselage in England after the aircraft was flown there from Schleswig in British markings. The photo of this plane in the Downsview hangar clearly shows the over-painted large roundel as well as the newly painted RAF fin flash covering the original over-painted fin flash. The Me 262s flown to Fassberg were given smaller roundels and no fin flashes.

Thank you for the link to the tail assemblies with white rudders. I notice a tail assembly in the back ground with a dark rudder. The only Me 262 with a dark rudder I can recall is W.Nr. 111712 found at Innsbruck-Hotting.

kind regards,

Jim
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Old 30th November 2015, 19:32
Vince Malfara Vince Malfara is offline
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Re: Camouflaged Me 262s with white rudders

Hi Jim

My apologies, I hadn't looked at that photo in so long I completely missed the fact that the rudder in fact must have been a lighter shade and at some point painted over.
The hangar photo also shows a lighter shade now that I look at it again. I am thinking the white rudders were probably replacement parts to repair damage ones. Just a thought.

KR

Vince...
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Old 30th November 2015, 20:27
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Camouflaged Me 262s with white rudders

Hi Vince,

I'm beginning to believe you are right. I was hoping for something more deliberate such as identifiers for trigger-happy troops who, since the appearance of ground attack Meteors, shot at any jet in the sky. But as there does not seem to be any evidence to support this conjecture, "replacement parts" makes more sense to me too.

kind regards,

Jim
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Old 1st December 2015, 00:48
PhilippeDM PhilippeDM is offline
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Re: Camouflaged Me 262s with white rudders

Jim,

To me the picture Vince showed us here of tailplanes of Me262 led me to the conclusion that either the movable part was produced and finished by another subcontractor than the non movable part of the tailplane, or, but I do not have refs at my disposal, indicates other material (wood?) used to produce it.
A glimp to this picture should make me think of a pale version of the RLM76 colour, which was used as finishing layer on different parts of the fuselage, wings and motor gondolas.

Just suggestions, no proof...

(meanwhile out of the hospital, stuck in a chair with a dislocated ankle and some related fractures)
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