Codes for Ju52s of KGrzbV.11 during Dutch Campaign

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

As part of a much larger project, I am working with several others, including Peter Cornwell, to match up the existing photos of the Ju52 losses in Holland with the material presented by Peter in his recently published book, "The Battle of France Then and Now." We are dealing with some 200 +/- crashes, crash landings and damaged Ju52 aircraft. Literally hundreds, if not thousands of photos exist of these crashes. Some members of our "Dutch Team" are actually visiting many of the identified locations of Ju52 losses to verify photo identifications, research local archive sources and acquire locally available information, including eye-witness accounts of these incidents. One of the problems that we've encountered is that unit codes on photos of some crashed aircraft with known locations are not matching up with unit information on the crashes as previously compiled and published by Brongers, and relied on heavily by Peter for his BoFRT&N Ju52 loss data. We've recently documented a Ju52 loss with clearly visible "1Z" codes that is supposed to be an aircraft from KGrzbV.11, rather than KGzbV.1, which is identified with the code "1Z." I can find no reference source for the Geschwader/Gruppe codes for KGrzbV.11 in either Ketley or Merrick. Does anyone know the correct codes for the Ju52 transport unit KGrzbV.11 during the Western Campaign? If anyone is interested in helping with this project that is not already working with our research group, or has information and/or photos that you think would be of help, I would appreciate hearing from you via my private message box. We are doing the same for other countries and other aircraft types during the same period, an enormous task, so any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx,

[Andy Saunders]

Larry

No codes or details, but the caption says its one of your Ju 52's. May be a new photo to you?

Andy

[Larry Hickey]

Andy,

Thanks for the photo. I'll add it to our data base. I think I've seen other images of this crash. If anyone has any identifying info on this one, it would be appreciated. From a different angle, the aircraft codes should be readable.

I stated that I'd checked sources for the code in "Ketley and Merrick." I mean't Rosch and Merrick.

Thanx

[Rudolf Hecke]

Hello


see my article about KGr.z.b.V.10,11 und 12


in Jet & Prop 5/07




Rudolf Hecke

[Larry Hickey]

Rudolf,

Thanks for the post. Unfortunately I don't have that issue, only the Jet-Prop Specials. Is it possible for you to send me a scan of this article or a word document of the text?

Regards,

[Pieter H]

Hi Larry,

I fully agree that we have not yet the complete overview of which Ju52 crashed where on May 10. The list of Mr Brongers you refer to is an impressive overview and starting point, but basically a compilation of all claims and reports, and definitely not all correct. (And not reading dutch doesn't help much either ). Peter Cornwell made a big step, but also his list still contains gaps and as I see it some errors; we had a good discussion on some of the entries (unfortunately under time pressure of the manuscript). So continued research remains necessary.

Regarding the unit codes of the KGzbV units that were part of the transport fleet:

KGzbV1 1Z+

Stab/KGzbV2 G6+xA
- KGrzbV9 9P+
- KGrzbV11 G6+xD, T,U,V,W (this was the former III./KGzbV2)
- KGrzbV12 G6+xB, H,K,L,M (the former I./KGzbV2)
- I./KGzbV172 N3+

It is indeed interesting that the majority of pictures of crashed Ju52's are of KGzbV1 aircraft, followed by KGrzbV9. Pictures of aircraft coded G6+ and especially N3+ are a clear minority. Would be nice if you had some of those.

Regards, Pieter

[B.F.M. Droog]

Hello Larry,

I wish you and the others from the team much success in the project. Don't know if I'm able to help, but when and where possible I will.
For the people who don't know the Brongers list: German aircraft losses in the Netherlands, May 1940, by Lt. Col (ret) E.H. Brongers

Regards,

Bart