Need First name of Oblt. Schopper, of 4./KG3 & Location of his FL in a Do17Z on 15 Sept 1940

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

In his well-known book on 15 Sept. 1940, Alfred Price tells the story of a Do17Z of 4./KG3 that force-landed on the sand dunes near Dunkirk after combat damage over Britain that day. The story is accompanied by photos of 5K+AM sourced to one of two crewmen who was badly wounded.

My questions:

1) What was the full name of Lt. Schopper and was he the 4 Staffel Kap, although only a Lt? His name does not appear in the Luft Officers Career Summ. DB. He must have been the Observer aboard the a/c.

2) Where more precisely that a sand dune near Dunkirk did this Do17Z force-land? The two badly injured crewmen aboard were hospitalized in Antwerp, which seems like quite a distance from a crash location near Dunkirk. Something doesn't seem right here.

Our entry in the EoE Luft loss DB presently reads: "Sept 15, 1940: 4./KG3 Dornier Do17Z-3 (2879). Returned damaged by fighters following sortie to bomb railway targets along the Thames 2.50 p.m. BF Fw Felix Gwidziel and BM Fw Heinz Kirsch both badly wounded - admitted to hospital in Antwerp, FF Oberlt Gerhard Granicky and rest of crew unhurt. Aircraft 5K+AM 40% damaged but repairable. (Source: Perry)."

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[Matti Salonen]

Sieghart Schopper

Matti

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Further information that I've received:

1) Indicates that Schopper was the pilot aboard this a/c. Oblt. Gerhard Granicky was probably the BO, and may have been the Sta Kap. Can anyone confirm his position of Sta kap of 4./KG3 at this time?

2) Photos confirm that this was in a vegetated wasteland, that could have been in a sandy area. This may have been at a place named Mardjick, France. This apparently is the German name for probably Mardyck, which appears to be a place in France just south of the border with Belgium, and not far from the coast and Bray Dunes, N. of Dunkirk. This still quite a distance from Brussels, where two of the crewmen were hospitalized. Another source says that the FL was near Calais, France, rather than near Dunkirk.

Can anyone help me nail this location down better and confirm that Granicky was the Sta Kap?

Thanks for your help.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[DDT]

Hi Larry,

In the book "Fliegerhorst Antwerpen - Deurne 1940" written by Jean Dillen, I found 2 pictures of the crashed 5K+AM. Mr. Dillen also states that the pictures are taken in the dunes of Mardijck/France. The second picture shows the craw standing on their plane. It seems to me that they are not 'badly hurt'.
" ... the men of a nearby Flak battery, who witnessed the crash, came to help and evacuated the crew to a doctor who took care of their wounds. They had landed in Mardijck not far from Calais in France .... "
The Granicky crew had a second misfortune on a mission to Skegness at the end of october. They had to ditch in the North Sea when one of their engines caught fire from the debris of another bomber exploding when AA-shell hit the bombbay.
This time they were flying Do.17Z-3, 5K+CM. The crew was saved by a He.59 from the 'Seenotzentrale" in Boulogne. Only Granicky and Heinz Kirsch (with a picture of the last) are mentioned. The names of the other 2 crewmembers are not given.
Gerhard Granicky was indeed the St.Kap. of 4./KG 3 during this period.
Hope this will help.
Kind regards,

Dirk

[Larry Hickey]

DDT,

You are Belgian, so can you tell me if Mardijck is the same as Mardyck, France? If this is Mardyck, then this is at Dunkirk, not at Calais. This is what has me confused. Did the crew land in the dunes near Mardyck (Dunkirk) or further down the coast near Calais?

Second point, do ou know when Oblt Granicky took over as 4 Sta Kap, and when his time in that position ended? What is your source for this info?

Thanks for your help.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE project Coordinator

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Since I posted the above, I checked my copy of "Fliegerhorst Deurne: 1940" and the caption on P. 95 does say that Granicky was the Sta Kap. Can anyone provide his dates of service in that position for my II./KG3 Sta Kap Roster? We know that according to Marius Emmerling, as of 1 Sept. 1939 Oblt. "Wolfgang Martin" was the Kap of 4 Staffel. Our EoE Luft loss DB says that a "Richard Martin" was badly injured in a crash on 12 May 1940:

"May 12, 1940: 4./KG3 Dornier Do17Z. Damaged by AA fire during sortie to Charleville and engaged by P/O Lee of No.501 Squadron over Izel, crash-landing near Arsfeld, north-west of Bitburg (Germany), 6.35 p.m. FF Oberlt Richard Martin (Staffelkapitän) badly wounded - admitted to hospital in Diekirch, rest of crew unhurt. Aircraft 30% damaged but repairable."

It isn't clear to me from either this or the Luft. Off. Career Summ DB which is the correct first name for this person, assuming that they refer to the same officer, which appears very likely.

Whatever the correct name, did Granicky assume command of the Staffel from Martin on May 13, 1940, and serve until when? (at least the end of Oct., 1940)? After the incident related by DDT above, did Granicky continue to command the Staffel through the end of the 1940 and beyond, or did someone else take over command of 4 Staffel?

Who can help resolve this?

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[Brian Bines]

I had no luck looking through the GQM list for the ditching of 5K+CM and crew rescue in late October is there any more info. However the report dated 2nd-Sept-40 shows that in a raid on Hornchurch on 31st.Aug Do17 Z-2 5K+BC 3456 was damaged 12% to enemy fire with Ltn. Schopper wounded/injured. There is an admendment date by his name which looks like 18-11-40 but I could not find anymore, I take it this is the same man.

[Scharnier]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

"May 12, 1940: 4./KG3 Dornier Do17Z. Damaged by AA fire during sortie to Charleville and engaged by P/O Lee of No.501 Squadron over Izel, crash-landing near Arsfeld, north-west of Bitburg (Germany), 6.35 p.m. FF Oberlt Richard Martin (Staffelkapitän) badly wounded - admitted to hospital in Diekirch, rest of crew unhurt. Aircraft 30% damaged but repairable."

Hi Larry,

I think here's a typo and you mean Arzfeld.

Best regards
Claudia

[DDT]

Hallo Larry,

It is indeed the same. Madyck is how the French, Mardijck is how we Belgian write it down. But to my believe Mardyck/Mardijck lies between Calais and Dunkirk in France.
I have no idea if Granicky became St.Kap., but is most likely the case.
The book of Jean Dillen makes no mention if Granicky stayed as St.Kap. after he was rescued from the northsea.
Kind Regards,

Dirk

[Chris Goss]

I now have this photos & it would appear that only one crew member is wounded & not badly. If going by the names on the back, the wounded man is Granicki! It would appear to be in a field behind sand dunes.