8.10.43, Allied claims over Bf110 - any info?

[Evgeny Velichko]

Hi all!

8.10.43, 14.15 - 16.00 Bf110's of I./ZG 1 and II./ZG 1 attacked British/ American bombers with strong escort.

It was disaster:

I./ZG 1 lost 1 Bf110 (100%), 1 pilot (5 victory ace, StaKa 1./ZG 1 Oblt.Rudiger Ossmann) and 1 bortfunker killed ; claiming 6 B-17 and 1 Typhoon.

II./ZG 1 lost 9 Bf110 (8 x 100%, 1 x 20%), 6 pilots MiA (including 12 victory ace, Gr.Kdr. II./ZG 1 Hptm. Karl-Heinrich Matern, and Gr.Adj. II./ZG 1 Lt. Hans-Bodo Busch), more 2 pilots KiA, 1 pilot PoW, and 9 bortfunkerss for all reasons; claiming only 3 victoryes: P-47, Spitfire, Mitchell

Are there any possible RAF claims on Bf110's over Atlantic ocean/Brest area at that time and day? Many of Bf110's noted as "shot down by Spitfires". Was it British B-25 formation covered by Spits?

Best wishes!

[Chris Goss]

The combat over the bay of Biscay was between II/ZG 1 and Spitfires of 453 Sqn (5 destroyed), 610 Sqn (2 destroyed), 66 Sqn (3 destroyed, 1 damaged, one probable). 453's claims were c. 0833 hrs; 610 Sqn c.1415 hrs, 66 Sqn 1445-1625 hrs. Bostons of 88 & 342 Sqn were involved in the attack in the morning; no Americans were involved

[Evgeny Velichko]

THX for great answer, Chris! Now I see, I./ZG 1 and II./ZG 1 were not at the same combat. I./ZG 1 intercepted Americans, and II./ZG 1 - British in other place.

Was the target of Bostons Brest-Sud. airfield, base of II./ZG 1? Gruppe losses on ground:

Bf 110 G-2, 150112, 100%, Destroyed in bombing attack.
Bf 110 G-2, 5628, 50%, Damaged in bombing attack
Bf 110 G-2, 6175, 10%, Damaged in bombing attack.

During combat with 66 Sqn., from 14:45 to 16:25 I found 3 claims:

Ofw. Berger, 6./ZG 1, Mitchell, 5965: 2.300 m., 15.45 (B-25"Mitchell" or A-20 "Boston"?)
Fw. Franz Meissl, 6./ZG 1, Spitfire, 5968: 2.000-700 m., 15.45 (total 11 victories, incl. 2 Viermots+2 Spits)
Uffz. Anders, 6./ZG 1, P-47, 5966: 1.200 m., 15.47 (P-47? May be misidentification? Both P-47 and Spit have elliptic wing)

Are british losses known?

[Chris Goss]

I have no B-25 losses-they were in action in the morning I believe and yes, the target wasBrest airfield 1 Spitfire lost in combat & one due to engine failure 0830/0845 hrs (453 Sqn), one damaged 0845 hrs, one Spitfire damaged 1415 hrs (610 Sqn) one Spitfire Cat B 1545 hrs (66 Sqn). For Berger I have Heinrich Boerger?

[Evgeny Velichko]

Ofw. Heinrich Börger, WiA on 27-06-44 - the same?

[Chris Goss]

...and who was shot down on 8 Oct 43 without apparent injury in Wk Nr 6378

[Tom Semenza]

Yevgeny,

I have found only 3 claims for Ossmann:

02.09.42 I-153
19.09.42 LaGG-3
17.07.43 Pe-2

Can you name the other two?

Thanks,
Tom

[Evgeny Velichko]

Actually I know only he had 5 abschusse before his death. His first abschusse is unknown for me.

02.08.42, I-153 - PlQ 06484, Lt R.Osmann (abschusse#2); witness - by Uffz Kanzian

Then LaGG-3 and Pe-2 give us at least 4 of them.

BTW: are there any photo of him anywhere aviable?