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  #11  
Old 19th July 2005, 17:39
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Peter Cornwell Peter Cornwell is offline
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Re: 238 Squadron pilot in the sea 1940

Many thanks Nick for posting details from S/L FENTON's account.

The German pilot he shared a cabin can be identified as Oberlt Martin MULLER the Gruppenadjutant of Stab I./StG3. So either S/L FENTON misunderstood him to say he was a 110 pilot or MULLER was being highly security concious. And yes, he WAS from Leipzig !
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  #12  
Old 19th July 2005, 19:57
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Re: 238 Squadron pilot in the sea 1940

Hi Alex

No i am certainly not saying it was Bann into the sea, i only wish we could find some details on this incident. I have done a good deal of research on Sgt Bann but this incident, together with identifying the JU88 or Heinkel he again mentions in a letter, that he followed almost back to France before killing its rear gunner with his last burst i can find no further information on. ( i will post this as a question with a date soon)
Sgt Bann is a fascinating pilot to study, just an "ordinary" pilot with four confirmed kills including shared before he was Killed on 28/09/40.
I am visiting his crash site on the Isle of Wight in a few weeks my 5th visit to it and would love to have the answers to these final few questions.
Thanks for all the help
Jon Eeles
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  #13  
Old 19th July 2005, 21:36
steve sheridan steve sheridan is offline
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Re: 238 Squadron pilot in the sea 1940

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the wonderful information from your uncles log book, this is most useful to me. What a fascinating thread this as turned out to be!

Many thanks.

Rgs
Steve.
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  #14  
Old 20th July 2005, 11:56
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Re: 238 Squadron pilot in the sea 1940

Hello Nick

I'm in total agrement with Steve. Especially the log of Your uncle's activities in July 40 is very enlighting. It shows once again the workload of fighter pilots during high activity. On can only admire their stamina.

Thankfully
Juha
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  #15  
Old 20th July 2005, 14:28
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: 238 Squadron pilot in the sea 1940

Nick
Excellent stuff! Any mention of the Poles in the memoirs?
Anyway, I would like to note that neither log-book nor ORB cannot be considered a definite source of correct information on aircraft or sorties. An extreme care must be taken, especially during such a hot periods.
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  #16  
Old 20th July 2005, 16:13
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Re: 238 Squadron pilot in the sea 1940

Jon, is it possible Mr Bann was shooting a line, or making someone else's story his own?
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  #17  
Old 20th July 2005, 18:36
nick de carteret nick de carteret is offline
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Re: 238 Squadron pilot in the sea 1940

Hi Franek

Herewith some quotes re. the Poles in 238 during the Battle from his memoir :-

First on returning from sick leave:

"The battle was still very much at it's height and, after a medical I was quickly back in the old routine. We were becoming short of pilots but the Poles and Czechs began to arrive and were like manna from heaven. What they lacked in English, they more than made up in experience and spirit and it is amazing how quickly we all became firm friends. The only snag was that, after an engagement, and not being very good on the R/T, they were liable to land at various other airfields in southern England so I could never be sure of what casualties I had until it had been sorted out. Most of them were regulars in their own services and more experienced than our crowd.
Vernon Simmonds had usually flown as my No.2 but now led a section himself so I drafted in Sgt. Marrion Domagala, a Pole into the position and found it reassuring to have a man of his determination and ability on my wingtip. I remember an incident a month or two later. We were together trying to intercept a German 'Recce'. There were huge thunderstorms and inside one my airspeed indicator iced up and failed as the heater was on the blink. I could keep straight but went up and down violently. All this time Domagala stuck to my wingtip like glue!
For some months I flew with Domagala (Polish) and Bernard (Czech) on each side and reckoned I had the finest section in the Command".


And from the Appendix at the end of his book re. 238 Squadron:

" In 238 Squadron during the Battle of Britain in the few months we lost eighteen pilots - an appalling figure. This was not any reflection on skill or training, as many were able and experienced. If we had had time to get together and do some tactical training, it could have helped but that was not possible until the winter when the battle was over.
I suppose it was a little more bearable because I knew so many of them for such a short time. The sort of dialogue could be, " Glad to have you with us; you'd better fly with me today". A typical example was a likeable Pole, Jan Steborowski. He joined 238 on August 5th and was killed on the 11th having himself shot down a Bf 110 on the 8th, the day I was shot down myself so I did not know about it until later. Both Flight Commanders, Walch and Turner, were killed in early August - I had taken over less than a month before.
After the battle, first Charles Davies and later Pearson and Ray Sellers were lost. By then we had had time to become close friends and I felt their loss bitterly.
Now only a few of the originals remain; Vernon Simmonds, Gordon Batt, Jackie Urwin-Mann, Brian Considine and 'Covey' Covington. Marrion Domagala died early this year (1991)".
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  #18  
Old 20th July 2005, 19:56
Jon Jon is offline
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Re: 238 Squadron pilot in the sea 1940

Hi Franek and Nick

I have looked through the copies of Sgt Banns letters i own and he also mention the Poles in particular Domagala who he says often spoke of the Germans machine gunning Polish civilians in the streets !!
I also have a copy of the original 238 Squadron kill chart compiled by the Intelligence officer in 1940, it lists the whole squadron with his personal kills. Of interest are :

Sgt Jeka......4 110's 2 HE111's 1 JU88.......confirmed.
Sgt Domagala... 2 110's 2 109's......Confirmed.
S/L H Fenton.....1 DO17 (shared with Bann) 4 110's 1 HE111...confirmed.
Sgt Bann............1 DO17 (shared with Fenton) 1 110 2 HE111 ( i now know one of the HE111 was infact a JU88 )

Regards
Jon
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  #19  
Old 20th July 2005, 20:04
Jon Jon is offline
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Re: 238 Squadron pilot in the sea 1940

Hi Andy.

As for Sgt Bann line shooting, i suppose it is very possible he might have, but i hope it is simply a case of the information not being logged down !!

I have also now finished my research on who Sgt Bann shot down and also the pilots who could have killed him on 28/07/40. If interested i can post it here.

Thanks
Jon
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  #20  
Old 21st July 2005, 00:53
steve sheridan steve sheridan is offline
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Re: 238 Squadron pilot in the sea 1940

Hi Jon,

I for one, would be most interested to see the fruits of your research on sgt Bann, as im sure Andy would himself.
Please Jon, any further information would be most welcome!

Rgs,
Steve.
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