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  #21  
Old 2nd January 2006, 12:37
steve sheridan steve sheridan is offline
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

Your welcome Hohentwiel,
Amongst the pilots of 5/JG3 prior to the Battle of Britain, i have a couple of other pilots with 2 kills.

Uffz Hermann Freitag
Uffz Konrad Nelleskamp
Fw Josef Heinzeller

Does anybody have any fotos of these pilots, or their a/c?
Also Rob asks about Uffz Alfred Heckmann, he is believed to have flown Black 6+- any further info on him or his a/c welcome.

Any further information would be most appreciated!
Rgs,
Steve.
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  #22  
Old 3rd January 2006, 16:24
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

At this point in the discussion, I would like to sum up what is known about 5 Staffel, JG 3, from its inception 2.40 through the end of 1940. A dozen pilots are known to have joined the unit between 2.40 and the beginning of the French Campaign. There may have been one or, at most, two not listed below assigned before or during the French Campaign (FC). All Luftwaffe units will eventually be charted with this information for the 1939-40 period as a small part of a much larger project. Anyone with photos or data that can help make this information more complete please contact me.

1) Oblt Herbert Kijewski (2), Black 1, probably WNr1443.
2) Lt. Werner Voight (1), Black? WNr?
3) Lt Horst Buddenhagen (1+1 unconfirmed), Black 7, WNr?
4) Lt Peter Wisser (0), Black ? WNr? Probably attached II Stab when +20.5.40
5) Obfw Horst Götz (1), Black? WNr?
6) Uffz Josef Heinzeller (2), Black? WNr?
7) Uffz Alfred Heckmann (1), Black WNr?*
8) Uffz Max Bücher (0), Black? WNr? +25.5.40
9) Uffz Konrad Nelleskamp (2), Black? WNr?
10) Uffz Hermann Frietag (2), Black?, WNr?
11) Uffz Fritz Mias (2), Black?, WNr (Temp MIA 19.6.40, 109E 100% loss)
12) Uffz Walter Ohlrogge (0), Black? WNr?*

*Later Knight's Cross Winners.

(-) Victories during the FC.

According to Obermeier's Knight's Cross book, later German only Edition, Ohlrogge was assigned in May, 1940, but served throughout the FC, thus there may have been another, unknown pilot assigned as a part of the original compliment of the unit.

Changes after French Campaign and before Battle of Britain: Replacements for Lt Wisser and Uffz Bücher: unknown. Other new pilot assignments: unknown.

Known Pilot/Plane assignments during Battle of Britain to 31.12.40:

1) Oblt Herbert Kijewski (2/3), Black 1, Probably WNr 1443 (lost 2.9.40). Nickname "Erika." Replacement Black 1, WNr.?
2) Lt. Werner Voight (1/2), Black? WNr?
3) Lt Horst Buddenhagen (1+1 unconfirmed/5), Black 7, WNr? Nickname "Schluck+Specht."
4) Obfw Horst Götz (1/1), Black? WNr? + 29.10.40
5) Uffz Josef Heinzeller (2/4), Black? WNr? Nickname "Schnauzl."
6) Uffz Alfred Heckmann (1/3), Black 6, WNr?
7) Uffz Konrad Nelleskamp (2/3), Black? WNr? Nickname "Schnauzl"?
8) Uffz Hermann Frietag (2/2), Probably Black 9, WNr? Nickname "Schnauzl."
9) Uffz Fritz Mias (2/2), Black 8, WNr 1464 (lost 5.9.40); Replacement probably Black 8.
10) Uffz Walter Ohlrogge (0/1), Black? WNr?

(-) First number is victories during French Campaign; second number is total victories recorded through 31.12.40.

Pilot Notes: Obermeier's Knight's Cross book gives the date of 28.8.40 for the first victory of Ohlrogge, and incident where his E-4 went down into channel from which he was rescued three hours later. Prien's JFV 4/II gives the date for this as 16.8.40, which is probably correct.

Plane Notes: Photos of Black 4, Black 10, Black 11 and Black 14 known from early-mid August 1940. Black 11 (WNr 1155) and 14 from same period have SCHNAUZL emblem of Heinszeller schwarm.These two likely flown by Nelleskamp and Heinzeller, although which is which is not known. Plane carried two victory tabs on fin, and both pilots had that number of victories as of the period of the photo. Photos of Black 9 crash-landed 8.40 may have two victory tabs on fin, reinforcing idea that this is Freitag's a/c (see below in Russia). Black 5 photo with unknown pilot circa 9.40 or later. Photo of plane nicknamed "Gretel" known from 8.40, but a/c # and pilot unknown. Black 10, circa early 8.40 has a large white disc with unknown insignia or emblem in it on both sides of the fuselage below the cockpit. Originally thought to be the emblem of Lt Max-Bruno Fischer, but this is apparently not accurate.

Later BoB photos (replacements) of Black 1, 4, 8 and 14 (Prien), probably as Jabos.

Known pilot changes during Battle of Britain to 31.12.40:

1) Oblt Voight to St Kap 4./JG 3 31.8.40; POW 8.10.40.
2) Obfw Götz WIA 28.8.40, 100% loss of E-4 WNr 5142; KNIA 29.10.40, 95% loss E-1 WNr 4873.
3) Fw Nelleskamp does not appear in Russian Campaign, and no info after 28.8.40 victory; probably transferred out for unknown reason on unknown date.

All other original or early pilots continued to serve in 5./JG 3 into 1941 and the beginning of the Russian Campaign: Kijewski, Buddenhagen, Freitag, Heinzeller, Heckmann, Mias, and Ohlrogge.

Pilots who appear early in Russian Campaign that may have joined 5. Staffel anytime before 31.12.40: Lt Herbert Glücke (POW in Black 4), Lt Friedrich Kanzler, Uffz Ernst Pröske, Uffz Eduard Kunz (POW in Black 12), Gefr Georg Reichhardt, Gefr Hans Pilz, Gegr Paul Brune.

Note: Fw Fritz Mias Temp MIA in Black 8, indicating he continued to fly Black 8 in both 1940 and 41. Lt Buddinhagen known to have flown Black 7 in both 1940 and 1941 (photography analysis). Fw Freitag went temp MIA in Black 9 on 22.6.40, indicating that he may also have been flying Black 9 in 1940.

Obviously there are many unanswered questions here. Help from anyone with any information that helps fill in the missing gaps would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
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  #23  
Old 28th April 2010, 15:37
Maciej Góralczyk Maciej Góralczyk is offline
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

Hello Gentlemen,

any new info on aforementioned planes?

A photo of 'Black 11' appeared on ebay last month:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...E:B:SS:GB:1123

Last edited by Maciej Góralczyk; 28th April 2010 at 15:38. Reason: A little typo
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  #24  
Old 28th April 2010, 22:22
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

Hello,

Yes, I'd seen that posted. Would sure like to get a good res scan from the original print. This is probably the aircraft of either Nelleskamp or Heinzeller (see post above for BoB). If anyone can add any updates to the 4-year old info that I posted above, I'd sure like to hear from them.

Regards,
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