Photos 2-15 - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

edwest · #1 16th February 2007, 01:00

Brettas · #2 16th February 2007, 11:12

Hi,

Tail of the aircraft of Max-Hellmuth Ostermann Leutnant Bf 109F-2 7. JG 54 Russia 10-1941 (?)

F19Gladiator · #3 16th February 2007, 15:05

Regarding Bf 110 picture:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=170081582393

A picture of a crashed Bf110 with the very same nose emblem of I/ZG 26 and the "winged pencil chevron" is published in Zerstörer by John Vasco and Peter D. Cornwell, page133. Captioned as the ac of Gruppenadjutant, Oblt. Rüdiger Proske, Stab I/ZG 26 who crash-landed his C-4, U8+BB, W.Nr 3102, at Dering Farm, Lydd on 18 August 1940. The crew became POWs.

Same aircraft?

edwest · #4 16th February 2007, 17:20

Winged pencil? Is there no end to the unusual emblems?

Ed

F19Gladiator · #5 17th February 2007, 04:29

According to the same photo caption the pencil through the chevron "was a sardonic comment on the amount of paperwork heaped on an adjutant on top of flying duties"

F19Gladiator · #6 17th February 2007, 05:28

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=160086073292

Looks like as if this Me 110 carries another ZG 26 emblem right in front of the windscreen frame right where the fuselage is warped: A penguin with umbrella superimposed on a white chevron with the point pointing at 12 O' clock.

Kari Lumppio · #7 17th February 2007, 10:14

Hello!

Photo of the crashed Me 110 H8+CM ( Artikelnummer 170081592346 ) is particularily interesting for me. It looks it bears yellow ring so it's Eastern Front? It's plane from 4.(H)/Aufklärungsgruppe 33 which spent practically it's whole career at Eastern Front Leningrad (today St Peterburg) area.

The unit belongs amongst the most stationary Lw units that I know. According Michael Holm's site 4./33 was based at Siverskaya from May 1942 to August 43, but IIRC was there at least until the end of 1943 (I have to find the maps showing Luftflotte 1 dislocations amongst my papers). Possibly there still at February 1944, IIRC there are one or two of mentions in Finnish logs of H8+_M Me 110 reconnaissance flights over Gulf of Finland.

There are not so many big roads in Leningrad area (please correct me if I am wrong). It could be either the Tallinn-Narva- St. Peterburg road ( E20 ) or St. Peterburg - Pskov road ( E95 ). Refer to maps.google.com (choose maps or hybrid view to see road numbers).

The crash could well be at the Pskov road as Siverkaya is not far from the road. IF the crash was "ohne Feindeinwirkung" there aren't many of those for 4./33. Knowing the subtype ( E-3 or G-3) would narrow the search even more. Plus it is not wintertime.

Do the poles on road edge give any help for identificating the location? Were such poles used in Germany only? Do the cars give any hints about the location?

Wery long winged response, but 4./33 simply is one of the units I would like to know more. It's pity that the photos like this go so very expensive in auctions.

Any and all further remarks about the H8+CM photo(s) welcomed by me, the story behind them would be interesting to know.

Kari

John Vasco · #8 17th February 2007, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by F19Gladiator

According to the same photo caption the pencil through the chevron "was a sardonic comment on the amount of paperwork heaped on an adjutant on top of flying duties"

...this from the man himself who was flying U8+BB when he was shot down in it during the Battle of Britain.

Stig Jarlevik · #9 19th February 2007, 20:06

John

The U8+BB interests me since in the past it has been referred to as belonging to Günther Specht. I think Karl Ries was the first to start this in his camouflage and marking series. Ries states it was a Bf 110E used in the Autumn of 1941.

Any truth in this? Do we have two 110 with similar coding and markings flown by two different pilots? Same coding is very much a possibillity but the same "personal" marking??

Somewhere I have a very vague recollection of having seen a picture taken of Specht on a Bf 110, but if it did have such a marking it is beyond my memory capacity. Needless to say I cannot find the picture...

Cheers
Stig

Perseus71 · #10 5th July 2010, 19:22

Hello,

Rather late reply. But I came across some details during my research on Specht. Here's what I know.

U8+BB was a Bf 110 flown by Specht. He had even marked it with the Flying Pencil Logo from the Adjutant days. However when he was grounded the second time and left the twin engine fighters for teaching at training school, his position of Adjutant and aircraft was taken by his successorRüdiger Proske. Proske apparently let the the Flying Pencil logo be on the aircraft as it was a rebuttal by Specht to Paperwork faced by the Adjutant.

Hope this helps.

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