Marion Carl A6M2 Victory over Midway-June 4,1942

[kaki3152]

Hi everybody,

I was going through my old PB collection and re-read "Greatest Fighter Missions" by Edward Sims. Its a collection of short stories of aerial combat by USN/USMC fighter pilots. Its pretty good with lots of detail. Cheap too.

The first episode is of Lt. Marion Carls (USMC) actions over Midway on June 4,1942. In this combat he claim to have shot down a A6M2 over Eastern Island.

The Japanese lost two A6M2 s in this combat, one from Akagi piloted by PO1c Iwama Shinaji, lost over Eastern Island and one from Kaga, lost in aerial combat. The A6M2 lost over Eastern Island is supposed to have been shot down by AA not fighter action. Does anyone have more information?

Thanks

[JoeB]

From the 'kodochosho' of the four carriers for this mission, fighter claims and losses:
Akagi: claimed 11 'Grumman' including 2 'uncertain; one Zero holed once, another piloted by PO1C Kikuchi Tetsuo (KIA 1944) was holed 30 times. There is no (legible) notation next to the name of PO1C Iwama Shinaji on that report, but other sources on both sides agree he was downed by AA on this mission, wreck of a/c recovered by the Americans. This Japanese site has an image of more detailed record of the loss from their side.
http://www13.ocn.ne.jp/~seiroku/buhin.html
Kaga: claimed 9 'Grumman'; among Zero pilots PO1C's Tanaka Yukuo and Ito Hiromi were 'war deaths' but only one Zero lost. Other accounts clarify that Tanaka regained Kaga but he died of wounds. Tully and Parshall in "Shattered Sword" say this was 'probably' in a CAP action near the carriers on the way back but don't say how they determined that.
Soryu: claimed 4 'Grumman' including 2 uncertain; no damage recorded to Zeroes but one pilot wounded (I know of no explanation), the report says some Zeroes did intercept B-17's on the way back
Hiryu: claimed 18 'F4F', no loss or damage to Zeroes is listed

Carl's was one of 4 official victories by VMF-221 over Zeroes in this action. The Marines, as is well known, lost 13 F2A-3's and 2 F4F-3's.

Joe

[Mark E Horan]

The only fighter escort of the Midway Striking force lost in aerial combat over Midway Atoll was a Kaga A6M2 that piloted by PO1c Ito Hiromi. Of the kill clams for Japanese fighters submitted by the surviving Marine pilots of VMF-221, the most creditable were made by Capt. Marion Eugene Carl, USMC (5th Division F4F-3) and Capt. William Carter Humberd, USMC (3rd Division F2A-3). If you have a way to determine whoch got the kill, you are better than I am .



BTW, the total Japanese losses were 11 planes, with 6 others damaged beyond local repair. [though Tomaonaga flew his again anyway] and likely cause of each, included the following:


3 Hiryu B5N2 shot down (2xF2A-3 [1st division], 1xAA)
1 Hiryu B5N2 ditched @ Kure (F2A-3 [1st/4th divisions])
1 Hiryu B5N2 ditched back at KdB (F2A-3 [1st/4th divisions])
1 Hiryu B5N2 badly damaged [Tomonaga] (F4F-3 [likely by Capt. John Frank Carey, USMC])
4 Hiryu B5N2 out of action (3xF2A-3, 1xF4F-3 [likely by 2nd Lt. Clayton Milbourne Canfield, USMCR])
1 Soryu B5B2 shot down (F2A-3 [3rd division])
2 Soryu B5N2 ditched back at KdB (2xF2A-3 [3rd division])
1 Soryu B5N2 out of action on Hiryu (F2A-3 [3rd division])
1 Kaga D3A1 shot down (AA)
1 Akagi A6M2 shot down (AA)
1 Kaga A6M2 shot down (F4F-3 [Carl] or F2A-3 [Humberd])

Hope this is of interest.


Mark E. Horan

[JoeB]

Originally Posted by Mark E Horan

If you have a way to determine whoch got the kill, you are better than I am .

3 Hiryu B5N2 shot down (2xF2A-3 [1st division], 1xAA)
1 Hiryu B5N2 ditched @ Kure (F2A-3 [1st/4th divisions])
1 Hiryu B5N2 ditched back at KdB (F2A-3 [1st/4th divisions])
1 Hiryu B5N2 badly damaged [Tomonaga] (F4F-3 [likely by Capt. John Frank Carey, USMC])
4 Hiryu B5N2 out of action (3xF2A-3, 1xF4F-3 [likely by 2nd Lt. Clayton Milbourne Canfield, USMCR])
1 Soryu B5B2 shot down (F2A-3 [3rd division])
2 Soryu B5N2 ditched back at KdB (2xF2A-3 [3rd division])
1 Soryu B5N2 out of action on Hiryu (F2A-3 [3rd division])
1 Kaga D3A1 shot down (AA)
1 Akagi A6M2 shot down (AA)
1 Kaga A6M2 shot down (F4F-3 [Carl] or F2A-3 [Humberd])

Speaking of who got the kill, how did you determine the causes you gave so specifically?

Also, could you comment on the other two Zero cases I mentioned as per kodochosho's:
1. Akagi...one Zero holed once, another piloted by PO1C Kikuchi Tetsuo (KIA 1944) was holed 30 times.

2. Kaga..PO1C Tanaka Yukuo... 'war death'.. Other accounts clarify that Tanaka regained Kaga but he died of wounds. Tully and Parshall in "Shattered Sword" say this was 'probably' in a CAP action near the carriers on the way back but don't say how they determined that.

I suppose putting these two together, subject to how 'probably in CAP action' was determined, could get to John Lundstrom's characterization in "First Team" that 'one or two' Zero losses corresponded to VMF-221's victory credits.

Joe

[wellss]

In Marion Carl's book, he says this,

Total claims came to eleven shootdowns by -221, including 4 zeros. Actual enemy losses to all causes were seven planes. Two were zeros: one which crashed on Midway and the Kaga fighter last seen near the target. Japanese action reports identified the latter victim as Petty Officer Hiroyoshi Ito, who had graduated from flight training in 1939. His identity seems certain, for no other combats occurred at that time and place.