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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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Air War in the area of Army Group South 1941
I have started some research for a friend in this sector of the Eastern Front in 1941. So far I am still looking but decided to share the “over flow” in the area outside of the my research.
TsAMO f. 20064, o. 0000001, d. 0004, l. 92 Operational Report of the Staff 15 SAD 7 September 1941 12:05 (MT) 3 SB (45 SBAP) flew to attack the enemy forces in the area of Prishib with 4 LaGG-3 (28 IAP). 2 LaGG-3 returned to their airfield and the 2 remaining continued the escort. In the area of Grigori - Brigadirovka the 3 SB were attacked by 2 Bf 109. On the report of the LaGG-3, after the first attack 1 SB burned in the air with 3 crew parachuting at Dobinevka. The second SB with a loss of altitude, burning, went in an easterly direction and the third hid in the clouds. Not a single SB returned. The 2 LaGG-3 claimed 1 Me-109. SB St. Lt. Nikolay Artanov (section commander) MIA SB Ml. Lt. Aleksandr Krupodershchikov (pilot) SB Ml. Lt. Tananykhin TsAMo f. 200064, o.0000001, d. 0004, l. 108 Operational Report of Staff 15 SAD (report dated 8 September 1941 but information listed for the 7 September 1941) 7 September 1941 17:15 (MT) at an altitude of 2000 m bombed a German column. At 18:00 (MT) at an altitude of 600 m attacked by 4 Bf 109. It listed two SB (45 SBAP) shot down not listed in the previous report. SB Ml. Lt. Somolov (parachuted) SB Ml. Lt. Areyfel’d (KIA) I looked at the German side operating in that area. They are confusing about who might be involved. Major. Günther Lützow Stab/JG 3 SB-2 (59) and SB-2 (60) no time and location Lt.Eckhardt Hübner Stab/JG 3 SB-2 (15) no time and location Uffz. Edmund Rossmann 7./JG 52 DB-3 (14) 11:41 Uffz. Paul Eberhardt 7./JG 52 DB-3 (6) 11:42 Fw. Kurt Ratzlaff. 7./JG 52. DB-3 (8) 11:43 All with no location. No Bf 109 can be confirmed as shot down. If we look at the the time, the first 3 losses was probably beginning at 12:05 (MT), which would frame it into the claiming time of III/JG 52 but with no location it is not really absolutely confirmed. The claims by Stab/JG 3 also could be for these 3 SB but no times and locations can confirm this claim for that time period. The two later SB losses could also be for Stab/JG 3. The German claims for this period of the war, nearly all suffer from lack of location. So this is open to interpretation. |
#2
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Re: Air War in the area of Army Group South 1941
I have Hübner making his claim 10 km E Krementschug, and Roßmann made a claim in a morning sortie against an I-16 over/ near Stschastliwaja (at 09.25h), maybe this helps regarding the location.
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#3
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Re: Air War in the area of Army Group South 1941
Okay, another thought about the Soviet losses for this day would be the Soviet ADD made a raid in that area and they would be entirely separate from the 15 SAD. Nick Hector has told me that he has times for Stab/JG 3 that put it in that time frame for the first 3 SB losses. My source was Prien’s JFV 6/I which listed none. The later 15 SAD losses could have went unclaimed and it would not be the first time that I have seen this occurrence. The 15 SAD stated the the LaGG-3s of the 28 IAP saw only 2 Bf 109s, which could mean it was Stab/JG 3 but if it was 4 Bf 109s in 7./JG 52 it could have been 2 of them remained in top cover. The report stated the last SB went into the clouds and wasn’t seen again. So it still open to interpretation as to the German contestants.
Monaco it seems that with III/JG 52 and JG 3 both were operating in that sector, it makes it harder to determine. |
#4
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Re: Air War in the area of Army Group South 1941
New update with Nick Hector putting the time for Stab/JG 3 into the category and relooking at Eckhardt Hübner’s claim of his SB (15), which did have a location of 10 km east of Kremenchuk there is stronger belief it was Stab/JG 3. Grigoro-Brigadirovka is to the east of Kremenchuk and thus putting 7./JG 52 into the mystery category.
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#5
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Re: Air War in the area of Army Group South 1941
Again another III/JG 52 claim possibility.
TsAMO f. 20076, o. 1, d. 5, l. 2 Journal of Combat Operations of the Staff 20 SAD page 68 1 September 1941 11:20 - ? (MT) LaGG-3 of the 4 IAP was making an approach to land at the 4 IAP airfield at Sudets (couldn’t find it on current map, possibly the name changed) was attacked by nine Bf 109. The fighter crashed on to the airfield and the pilot died (could not find a name for the pilot). Three LaGG-3 landed afterwards. Checked the German units claiming during this time period in this sector and only III./JG 52 stood out but with no location. Uffz. Edmund Rossmann 7./JG 52 I-17 (11) 11:16 |
#6
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Re: Air War in the area of Army Group South 1941
Lot of times there is complaints about overclaiming or false claims but here is one of the things that occurred in 1941, no one claiming a verifiable victory.
TsAMO f. 20076, o. 1, d. 5, l. 2 Journal of Combat Operations of Staff 20 SAD 30 August 1941 09:37 - 10:11 (MT) air battle with 7 Bf 109 in which the MiG-3 flown by Leytenant Nikolay Krivoshapka (section commander) 182 IAP shot was shot down and he died. |
#7
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Re: Air War in the area of Army Group South 1941
I can’t provide the Soviet DBAP unit and the location was not readable to me except the last two letters “ka” but the unit providing the information was in the area of Dnipropetrovsk (present day Dnipro, Ukraine). I also checked for ADD reports for this area without success on-line.
TsAMO f. 20076, o. 1, d. 5, l. 2 Journal of Combat Operations of the Staff 20 SAD (pages 56-57) 30 August 1941 09:37 (MT) 4 MiG-3 from 182 IAP were returning escorting 3 DB-3 from a performed mission. At 3 km north of “?ka” they were attacked by 3 Bf 109. After the attack 2 DB-3 with their crews went down burning. I checked all the German units operating in this area and only III./JG 52 had claims for this time period. Uffz. Hans Kirschenlohr 8./JG 52 DB-3 (1) 08:35 35 km east of Dnipropetrovsk Lt. Herman Graf 9./JG 52 DB-3 (4) 08:40 60 km northeast of Dnipropetrovsk |
#8
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Re: Air War in the area of Army Group South 1941
Looked at 15 August 1941 and it seems that only I./JG 3 was active.
TsAMO f. 229, o. 181, d. 51 Journal of Combat Operations and records of Combat Composition of the VVS South West Front 07.08.41 to 22.08.41 15 August 1941 Soviet fighters of the 44 IAD were covering the units of the 26th Army in the area of Kanev from 17:30 - 20:00 (MT). In an air battle with Bf 109s, they reported damaging one Me-109. One I-153 (possibly from 249 IAP) was shot down and the pilot escaped by parachute. From the claims of the I/JG 3 involved in a dogfight in that area and time period. Lt. Detlev Rohwer Stab I/JG 3 I-153 (24) 17:50 north of Kanev Uffz. Johannes Schiffer 1/JG 3 I-153 (14) 17:55 3 km north of Kanev Obfw. Detlev Lüth 1./JG 3 I-16 (16) 17:55 north of Kanev “. “ “ I-153 (17) 18:00. north of Kanev No idea who was the actual victor. Same day and same report and also possibly I/JG 3. 10:07 (MT) 8 Su-2 from 211 BBAP were attacking in the area of of Litvinets and B. Rzhavets. The Su-2s were attacked by Bf 109s and AAA, which resulted in 1 damaged Su-2 that had the pilot and navigator wounded. The Su-2 were escorted by 2 I-16 from 28 IAP. 10:25 (MT) the 2 I-16 were returning to their airfield on being attacked by Bf 109s. One I-16 was shot down. No German claims were found for this incident |
#9
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Re: Air War in the area of Army Group South 1941
TsAMO f. 22474a, o. 0761907, d. 0003, l. 35 Operational Report of the Staff 35 DBAD 29 July 1941.
In this report it listed the mission that took place on the 18 July 1941 but seems to have left out one of the losses and misspelled the last name of of one the pilots lost. 18 July 1941 12:45 - 13:00 (MT) with an altitude of 500 m a German motor vehicle column on the roads between Zhitomir - Vysokaya Pech’ and Zhitomir - Berdychev were bombed by 6 DB-3 from 219 DBAP. After performing the mission at 15-20 km east of Zhitomir, they were attacked by 12 Bf 109. In the resulting air battle, gunner radio operator Serzhant Ancharuk shot down 2 Me-109. Then the losses started with 1st the DB-3 of Leytenant Vasilev. Next came Kapitan Lukin, which the crew parachuted down to the village of Mineyki/30 km northeast of Zhitomir. 3rd DB-3 was Leytenant Pavel Kulakov who was killed with 3 crew at Mineyki. Possibly another DB-3 of Leytenant Anatoliy Borik and crew that were not on the report but were listed in the losses of the OBD Memorial for this day as MIA. Now on examining the German side the victors were Stab/JG 53 and I./JG 53. Major Günther Frhr. von Maltzahn Stab/JG 53 SB-3 (37) 12:05 Major Günther Frhr. von Maltzahn Stab/JG 53. SB-3 (38) 12:08 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Heinecke Stab/JG 53 SB-3 (7) 12:11 east of Zhitomir Feldwebel Heinrich Leschert 3/JG 53 SB-3 (4) 12:03 Hptm. Franz von Werra Stab I/JG 53 SB-3 (12) 12:03 Lt. Wolfgang Tonne Stab I/JG 53 SB-3 (13) 12:08 |
#10
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Re: Air War in the area of Army Group South 1941
Hello Michael,
regarding 30.8.41 the DB-3 bombers could have been from 21 DBAP like 182 IAP (probably their escort) working for VVS 51st Army, two crews were lost: On 30.08.41 a DB-3 bomber and it´s crew from 21 DBAP (VVS of 51st Army) were shot down by enemy fighters: George Jr. Lieutenant Mikhail Ivanovich Nistratov, gunner-bombardier Lt. Vladimir Semyonovich Tot′myanin, gunner-radio operator Jr. Sergeant Mstislav Ivanovich Gujskij, Sergeant air gunner Jr. Sergeant Mikhail Fedotovich Makarinskij. On 30.08.41 a DB-3 crew from 21 DBAP (VVS of 51st Army) was shot down by enemy fighters: Zveno commander St. Lieutenant Mikhail Alekseevich Egurnov, Navigator ranking Lieutenant Viktor Gavrilovich Trusov, Radioman-gunner, Jr. Sergeant Vladimir Zaraevich Sahiev, air gunner Jr. Sergeant Ivan Philipovich Kislenko. On 30.08.41 Ml. Sergeant Nikolay Petrovich Kabanov, gunner-radio operator in 21 DBAP (VVS of 51st Army), was killed while performing combat tasks- he bailed out at too low altitude and fell to death. |
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