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  #1  
Old 4th May 2005, 19:28
Vinman Vinman is offline
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Question Luftwaffe shared victories (was: Hartmann ....352 victories or 80?)

Hello,
I am new to this forum, just signed up yesterday and was looking forward to participating on the Hartmann 352 victories or 80 discussion.
What happened to the thread?
Any comments,
Thanks,
Vinman.
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  #2  
Old 4th May 2005, 19:34
Boandlgramer Boandlgramer is offline
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Re: Hartmann ....352 victories or 80?

Vinman wrote:
What happened to the thread?




lost in combat .
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  #3  
Old 4th May 2005, 19:41
Vinman Vinman is offline
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Re: Hartmann ....352 victories or 80?

Hello Boandlgramer,
Why was it ended?
Did it get to hot for discussing, or some other reason?
Vinman.
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  #4  
Old 4th May 2005, 19:47
Boandlgramer Boandlgramer is offline
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Re: Hartmann ....352 victories or 80?

last pages were a little bit too "off topic" , and also insulting.
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Old 4th May 2005, 20:04
Vinman Vinman is offline
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Re: Hartmann ....352 victories or 80?

Hi Boandlgramer,

Its too bad that some individuals cannot have an intelligent discussion, without insults.
If people could only put away their bias opionions and stop making blanket statements, then evyone could have a great debate. Oh well, maybe the subject will come up again.
The only question I have is: Does Hartmann's score or any other Luftwaffe Ace's score include shared kills? You never see it written in any publication. For example, Johnnie Johnson: 38 Kills (30 Individual + 7 Shared).
Vinman.
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Old 4th May 2005, 20:09
Boandlgramer Boandlgramer is offline
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Re: Hartmann ....352 victories or 80?

in the german luftwaffe there was no shared victory.
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Old 4th May 2005, 20:23
Vinman Vinman is offline
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Re: Hartmann ....352 victories or 80?

I find that hard to believe. If one can imagine an aerial battle, with say 25 to 30 aircraft on each side, everyone is in the sky shooting at each other. Surely, there must have been a few who shot at the same plane, therfore, sharing in a kill?

Vinman.
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  #8  
Old 4th May 2005, 21:03
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Re: Hartmann ....352 victories or 80?

There was the 'iron rule' in German AF during both of WWs: '1 kill = 1 pilot', no percentage, no shares.
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Old 4th May 2005, 21:23
John Beaman John Beaman is offline
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Re: shared victories

Over and over German fighter pilots state that they did not share victories. The pilots claiming a share were left to sort out for themselves who received credit for a kill. Often senior pilots, already having credits, would give way to a less experienced pilot to encourage them.
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Old 4th May 2005, 21:46
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: Hartmann ....352 victories or 80?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
There was the 'iron rule' in German AF during both of WWs: '1 kill = 1 pilot', no percentage, no shares.
This rule simplifies a lot the historians' work.

For example, in the Rumanian air force (ARR), shared victories counted as a full victory for every pilot, who took part in destroying that particular airplane in air or on ground, although the fighter squadron/group tally raised only with one. It's causing huge problem in sorting out individual scores.
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