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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. |
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#1
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A-20 17 VA
This photo was found on Soviet Archives ...is marked as a A-20 based somewhere in Bulgaria sometime in 1944. I doubt this info and I ask those
who are familiar with this to verify the nfo Last edited by researcher111; 23rd June 2018 at 23:24. |
#2
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Re: A-20 17 VA
I doubt it too. This is an A-20C (B-3), where black No.28 on the nose corresponds to ~ S/N: 41-19140 or so. On October 1, 1944 the 17th Air Army had only the following A-20C Bostons in their 244 BAD regiments (260, 449, 861 BAP):
41-19353, 42-33151, 42-33294, 42-33302, 42-33326, 42-33348, 42-33359. UA-20C (trainer versions) in 17 VA, 244 BAD service by October 1, 1944: ...416, ...802, 41-19623, 41-19627, 41-19291, 41-19346. But eg. on August 1, 1942 the 17 VA, 861 BAP had similar A-20C Bostons to 41-19140: 41-19115 41-19132 41-19134 41-19138 41-19153 41-19154 41-19256 41-19278 41-19280 41-19290 41-19320 41-19324 41-19326 41-19349 41-19592, so from that "early" range. If 41-19140 belonged to the 244 BAD indeed, then the date and location (Bulgaria) is incorrect, - alias way too late, and definitely nothing like that between October 1, 1944 - July 1, 1945. Another similar, early A-20C, S/N: 41-19142 belonged to 277 BBAP, - but of course, 277 BBAP was not in the 17th Air Army. Gabor |
#3
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Re: A-20 17 VA
I totally agree with you , the Russian archive who published the stuff is just misleading
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#4
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Re: A-20 17 VA
Yep, looks like it is. By the way, the mechanical-maintenance document for the 17 VA, 861 BAP "Boston-3" bombers on August 1, 1942 lists the installed engine serial numbers as well for the aircrafts.
Gabor Last edited by HGabor; 16th May 2018 at 13:32. |
#5
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Re: A-20 17 VA
Thanks Gabor . questions :
1.Did the attachment saw combat in Hungaria ? 2. Where 449 BAP was based later in Hungaria ? Last edited by researcher111; 23rd June 2018 at 23:24. |
#6
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Re: A-20 17 VA
Yes, the 244 BAD with all of their 3 regiments (260, 449, 861 BAP) followed and covered the 3rd Ukrainian Front through Yugoslavia, Hungary and Austria in 1944-1945.
17 VA, 244 BAD, 449 BAP bomber airfields in Hungary (YYYY/MM/DD): Zombor (Sombor) - (1944.12.16 - 1945.01.03.) Madocsa - (1945.01.03 – 1945.01.20.) Érsekcsanád - (1945.01.20 - 1945.02.05.) Zombor - (1945.02.05 – 1945.03.25.) Tököl (Budapest-S) - (1945.03.25 - 1945.03.31.) Veszprém-Jutas - (1945.03.31 - 1945.04.04.) Pápa - (1945.04.04 - 1945.04.26.) Röjtökmuzsaj - (1945.04.26 –) Gabor |
#7
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Re: A-20 17 VA
Nice graphic. Yes, this A-20B S/N: 41-2937, "За Победу!" was shot down in Hungary over Börgönd airfield by Hptm. Helmut Lipfert on January 8, 1945 at 14:18 with 2 other Bostons. (43-21588 and 43-9596) Her crew of 4 was killed at the crash:
л-т Ветлов Виктор Михайлович pilot (№104164, +) л-т Ионов Виктор Матвеевич navigator (№104174, +) с-а Толмацкий Иосиф Исаевич radioman (+) с-т Бурцев Василий Федорович gunner (+) Gabor |
#8
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Re: A-20 17 VA
Thanks Gabor , I think this crew were a Crimean and 2nd Iasi Chisinau Offennsive vets
do you by chance got their photos ? Also it states that Lipfert last victory in Hungaria was a Yak 9 D , do you know the pilot's name ? |
#9
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Re: A-20 17 VA
1: No pic of crew.
2: Lipfert: it was a Yak-9M, NOT a Yak-9D! S/N: 4515340, 5 VA, 331 IAD, 179 IAP, л-т Рагулин Виктор Яковлевич (MIA) at Ács-Felsőgalla on March 21, 1945 at 15:30 (local time). "17:30 (Moscow time) На разведку, вед м-р Костиков. При подходе к п. Ач навстречу 8 ФВ-190. Пара развернулась на 180 гр чтобы уйти в облачность. В это время 12 ФВ-190 идущие с востока пошли в атаку. * - на Рагулина, 12 - на Костикова. Костиков отбил атаку, перешел на бреющий и ушел на свою территорию. Рагулин НБЗ.//Костиков сбил одного и подбил одного, рагулин сбил одного ФВ-190. На разведку, вед м-р Костиков. При подходе к п. Ач навстречу 8 ФВ-190. Пара развернулась на 180 гр чтобы уйти в облачность. В это время 12 ФВ-190 идущие с востока пошли в атаку. * - на Рагулина, 12 - на Костикова. Костиков отбил атаку, перешел на бреющий и ушел на свою территорию. Рагулин НБЗ." Reported time & area: 100% match! (I am not surprised, since Lipfert was a crazy accurate and honest fighter ace!) Fw and Bf fighters were regularly misidentified in soviet reports, especially in cloudy, dark weather. |
#10
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Re: A-20 17 VA
Ragulin's Yak-9M was a new plane, because on January 14, 1945 the 179 IAP had only the following 6 Yak-9s, the rest (18) was all Yak-1Bs (plus a Po-2 biplane for HQ):
2515313 2515366 2815338 3215337 7153100 10166027 (As you see, one was from Omsk, Factory No.166 and 5 from Novosibirsk, Factory No.153.) |
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