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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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Kurt Buhlingen
Hello
Who can identify the corresponding losses? 04/07/43: source Tony Wood one P-47,10km W.N.W cap d'antifer (Etretat) 13h.22 one spit,S.Vaucelles N.N.W Caen 17h.32 Regards michel |
#2
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Re: Kurt Buhlingen
The P-47 - This was either overclaiming, or misidentification. There were no P-47 losses.
The Spitfire was one of the following: 122 sqn, 129 "Mysore" and 411 sqn RCAF. 122 sqn lost BM634 of F/S R S Williams POW and WIA, plus AD416 of Sgt. W M Whittaker also POW near Cayeux (attributed to JG 26) 129 lost BS273 of F/S Cyril Woodall KIA (near Cayeux), and 411 lost AB802 of F/O J R Spaetzel KIA and BM422 of WIA, damaged. |
#3
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Re: Kurt Buhlingen
Quote:
4. July 1943 VIII Bomber Command 71: LE MANS, NANTES, LA PALLICE 275/237: 8 lost 1 Cat.E VIII Fighter Command 64: Bomber-Support 93 sent: 0-0-0 air: nil This US VIII BC mission # 71 was flown in three parts, to LE MANS, LA PALLICE & NANTES. G.A.F. fighter-reaction to the Le Mans and Nantes forces was particularly strong. Part I LE MANS (Gnome-et-Rhône et. Cie. motor-assembly plant): 1st Bomb-Wing (91, 303, 351, 379, 381, 384 BG): 121 B-17s dispatched, 105 credited with bombing. B-17s dropped 1018 x 500-lb. GP from 21-23,000-feet at 12.40-43 hrs. Two B-17s dropped on the rail-yard at Le Mans. Route: Selsey to point 15 miles N.W. Pointe de Barfleur, to St. Lô, to Laval, to Le Mans; out via Montfort, St. Cosme and Argentan. Weather: fine, 2/10th cover over target. Claims 24-5-15 for the loss of 4 B-17s. Withdrawal-Support by eight squadrons of Spitfires. Part II NANTES (S.N.C.A. de l'Ouest et Cie: airframe-assembly): 1st Bomb-Wing (92, 305, 306 BG): 71 B-17s dispatched, 61 credited with bombing. B-17s dropped 580 x 500-lb. GP from 21,500-25,000-feet at 12.46-49 hrs. Results assessed as excellent. Route similar to first force to Laval, thence to 47º 20' North 01º 17' West to Nantes. Enemy fighter opposition reported as moderate to strong with about 70-80 single-engined E/A being encountered on both missions.Weather: fine, 2/10th cover over target. Claims 28-9-7 for the loss of 3 B-17s. Withdrawal-Support by eight squadrons of Spitfires. On the Le Mans mission, enemy opposition started at the I.P. and continued to Argentan. On Nantes mission, from over I.P. for over an hour until force was 35 miles off French coast. FW 190s carried yellow noses. Aerial-bombing reported. Part III LA PALLICE (U-boat pens): 4th Bomb-Wing (94, 95, 96,100 BG): 83 B-17s dispatched, 71 credited with bombing. B-17s dropped 275 x 1,000-lb. GP from 23-27,500-feet at 12.01-04 hrs. Pracitally no enemy opposition encountered: only 6-10 E/A reported. One B-17 missing, claim 0-1-0. Ref: VIII BC. VIII Bomber Command # 71: 1st Bomb-Wing 11 Group Ramrod 122/I Gnome-et-Rhône LE MANS 12.40 t: 121/105 B-17 Fortress: 4 lost VIII Bomber Command # 71: 1st Bomb-Wing 11 Group Ramrod 122/II S.N.C.A. de l'Ouest NANTES 12.46 t: 71/61 B-17 Fortress: 3 lost VIII Bomber Command # 71: 4th Bomb-Wing 11 Group Ramrod 122/III Lock-gates LA PALLICE 12.40 t: 83/71 B-17 Fortress: 1 lost RAF 11 Gp. Ratten 1 Spitfire F.IX 12.00-14.05 Ramrod 122 0 - ½ - 0 FW 190 No casualty WD-S: from Argentan Claim 04.07.43 W/Cdr. J.R. Ratten 11 Group Hornchurch 0 - ½ - 0 FW 190 13.10 ca: 15 sm. N.E. Etretat RAF 11 Gp. 222 Sqn. 11 Spitfire F.IX 12.00-14.05 Ramrod 122 0 - ½ - 0 FW 190 No casualty WD-S: from Argentan Claim 04.07.43 Pilot 11 Group 222 Sqn. 0 - ½ - 0 FW 190 13.10 ca: 15 sm. N.E. Etretat 2nd Withdrawal-Support: Northolt RAF 11 Gp. Gabsewicz 1 Spitfire F.IX 12.00-14.05 Ramrod 122 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 No casualty WD-S: from Argentan Claim 04.07.43 W/Cdr. A. Gabsewicz 11 Group Northolt 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 13.10 ca: 10 sm. N. Argentan RAF 11 Gp. 316 Sqn. 11 Spitfire F.IX 12.00-14.05 Ramrod 122 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 No casualty WD-S: from Argentan Claim 04.07.43 F/O Ciastula 11 Group 316 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 13.10 ca: 10 sm. N. Argentan Subsidiary Operations: RAF 11 Group Ramrod 124 RAF 2 Group Rail-yards Amiens-LONGEAU 16.00 z: 12/98 & 180 Sqn. Mitchell II RAF 11 Gp. 411 Sqn. 12 Spitfire LF.Vb 16.45-18.15 Ramrod 124 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109G 1 Cat.Em 1Cat.B M-BS: Amiens Cat.Em 04.07.43 F/O J.R. Spaetzel: kia 11 Group 411 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: AB802 Me 109s: Amiens Escort-Cover: 122 Airfield RAF 83 Gp. 122 Sqn. 10 Spitfire LF.Vb 16.05-18.12 Ramrod 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109G 2 Cat.Em Fighters M-BS: Amiens Cat.Em 04.07.43 F/Sgt. R.S. Williams: p/w 83 Group 122 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: BM634 Me 109s: Amiens Cat.Em 04.07.43 Sgt. W.M. Whittaker: p/w 83 Group 122 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: AD416 Me 109s: Amiens Claim 04.07.43 Pilot 83 Group 122 Sqn. 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109G 17.20 ca: Amiens High-Cover: Hornchurch RAF 11 Gp. Ratten 1 Spitfire F.IX 16.45-18.30 Ramrod 124 0 - 1 - 0 FW 190 No casualty M-BS: Amiens Claim 04.07.43 W/Cdr. J.R. Ratten 11 Group Hornchurch 0 - 1 - 0 FW 190 17.25 ca: 10 sm. ESE Abbeville RAF 11 Gp. 129 Sqn. 11 Spitfire F.IX 16.45-18.30 Ramrod 124 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 Cat.Em Fighter M-BS: Amiens Cat.Em 04.07.43 F/Sgt. C. Woodhall: kia 11 Group 129 Sqn. Spitfire F.IX: BS273 FW 190s: ESE Abbeville RAF 11 Gp. 222 Sqn. 11 Spitfire F.IX 16.45-18.30 Ramrod 124 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 No casualty M-BS: Amiens Claim 04.07.43 Pilot 11 Group 222 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 FW 190 17.25 ca: 10 sm. ESE Abbeville |
#4
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Re: Kurt Buhlingen
Hi Nick
THE problem,hence my question,is that neither the place,the time,the type corresponds. The fall of the spits (122°,129°,411° Sqd) Amiens/Berck/Villers-Bocage/17h30-18h00 correspond to the claims of Galland W-F,Glunz,Radener,Leuschel,Golzsch,Umlauft. spit N.N.W.Caen (impossible),but good hour! 17h30! P-47!! W.N.W.Cap d'Antifer (place possible!),but bad type and bad hour, 13h22! michel |
#5
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Re: Kurt Buhlingen
Indeed, but overclaiming is a frequent problem when looking at JG 2's combats
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#6
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Re: Kurt Buhlingen
We're talking about Buehligen here?
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