Did FLAK units fall under Luftwaffe control

[Hohentwiel]

Originally Posted by ChrisMAg2

Michael,
but -seriously- Fla (with or without radar guidance) was not their main objective, not?

The 38 cm SKC 34 / L50 was a modified version of the
main armament of heavy battleship Bismarck and Tirpitz.
Produced in 1940 by Krupp.

[ChrisMAg2]

That's the main reason this is a very special victory -that a heavy gun like that is capable of shooting down an a/c-. Ok, it was a "rather slow" bomber, but still, it is "the shot of a liftime". And IIRC it wasn't even a direct hit, but a blast beside or nearby the bomber.

[mightythor99]

they were not just for firing at ships and defending from the water, they were very active at shooting down aircraft. they were responsible for shooting down many allied bombers.
what you have to keep in mind, is that these guys were the very first guys to see the incoming bombers,................ they had guys in boats, with radios, who called the shore batteries when aircraft were spotted, and they sounded the alarm. then the gunners ran to their guns, and got ready to fire. the bombers are going 250-300 mph, so the guys only had a few minutes to get ready to fire. then the allied bombers were farther inside europe, and they were radio'ed in, and tracked by the next sets of flak guys,..........and so on. the routes were pretty straight forward, most of the time, so they had a good idea where they were headed, by what direction they were heading.
i have lots of photos of these units, and the one that comes to mind for me, is a marine coastal battery, stationed at texel. they have 8-10 rings painted on their cannon, and plenty of pictures of shot down planes, dead air crew, etc.
the german anti aircraft guns were pretty accurate, and they shot down plenty of bombers.....................it's just that there WERE plenty of targets..........more then they could handle.

[mightythor99]

is that the germans moved flak units around sometimes. in '44 and '45, they moved some of the better units/more accurate firing units to more key locations. there are always flak guns around their aircraft bases also, that is standard operating procedures.
these more accurate firing units made a little bit of difference, but the swarms of allied bombers overhead made it pretty much a wash. what good is getting 10 bombers shot down,....out of 300, or 500 of them flying overhead. air superiority was key to beating the germans. that was the icing on the cake,....besides being attacked from all sides..........

[galgos]

I'm very keen to find the types and locations of the flak units defending the Dortmund-Ems canal, especially as of spring 1945. I know there were some units along the canal, on lock gates and some thinly disguised (as windmills) flak towers (mostly vierlings), and also some heavy 88s, but what was there west of the canal as the bombers prepared for their bomb run. How did the flak units co-ordinate (or didn't they!) with the nightfighters from NJG1 and 4 from Gutersloh and Dortmund?
Regards
Max Williams
www.galgos.co.uk

[SES]

Hi,
Coordination would be performed by the Jagd Division in this case 3 JD, please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/Gefechtsstand%20bunker%203%20JD.htm
In the Ops Room there were a number functions related to command and control of all assets subordinate to the JD. In the front row of the picture depicting the Ops Room please note the Flak Einsatzleiter:
http://www.gyges.dk/JD%20control.htm
bregds
SES
www.gyges.dk

[galgos]

Fascinating stuff SES, many thanks for that. May I just ask you to confirm then that the nightfighter action in planquadrate "HQ", the Dortmund-Ems target area at Ladbergen, would have been co-ordinated from Duisburg, as would the flak batteries around the target area?
Regards
Max Williams
www.galgos.co.uk

[SES]

Hi,
If night fighters under Himmelbett control/Zahme Sau were controlled into a specific area, restrictions would be imposed on the Flak. If the fighters were employed as Wilde Sau, there would be no central fire control restrictions imposed, but the Flak was to endeavour not to shoot on German night fighters.
bregds
SES

[Grzesio]

Originally Posted by ChrisMAg2

Typical AA guns (for Army and Air Force) were:
2cm FlaK 29, 30, 38
2cm Flak "Vierling"
3,7cm FlaK 36
(in war also 4cm FlaK 28, Bofors)
88mm Flak 18, 36, 36/37, 40/41,
105mm FlaK
128mm FlaK

Just a couple of thoughts...
There were also common 3,7 cm Flak 18, 3,7 cm Flak 37 and 3,7 cm Flak 43 guns.
Typical 8,8 cm Flak guns were models 18, 36, 37 and 41. All other are rarities/projects/fantasy.
10,5 cm Flak (models 38 and 39) as well as 12,8 cm Flak 40 and 12,8 cm Flakzwilling 40 were not typical for ground troops (i.e. Heer) at all. They were used exclusively by the Luftwaffe and/or versions for the Kriegsmarine.

Regards

Grzesio