Ltn Karl Heinz Elsner 10./JG2

[keith A]

This pilot claimed at least five victories but some sources give him twelve. Given that he was a Stafu with JG2 in 1944 I assume he served in the East having failed to find mention of him elsewhere. He is apparently not the same as Ofw Karl Elsner of JG51.

regards

Keith

[Kaczmarek]

Lt. Karl-Heinz Elsner came from 1/JGr. West to J.G. 2. Later St.fhr. of 10./J.G. 2 to MIA. He flew not with the J.G. 51 in the East. I have him with three victories.

Rgds,
Kaczmarek

[Rottler]

Hello Keith,

in the lists of the OKL fighter claims are the entries
05.07.44 Lt Elsner P-47 11
06.07.44 Lt Elsner Spitfire 12.

The last is not the 12th victory of Lt Elsner but the 12th confirmation for the
10. Staffel.
Here are some confirmations for the 10./JG 2 gathered from the OKL-lists:
30.04.44 Fw Engelbrecht P-51 6
06.06.44 Gefr Fieseler Typhoon 7
09.06.44 Fw Engelbrecht Auster 8
14.06.44 Fw Engelbrecht Mustang 9
14.06.44 Fw Engelbrecht Mustang 10
23.06.44 Fw Engelbrecht Spitfire 13
05.07.44 Lt Elsner P-47 11
06.07.44 Lt Elsner Spitfire 12.

Regards
Leo

[Kaczmarek]

16.3.44 Ltn. Karl-Heinz Elsner Stab III./J.G. 2 B-17 Anerk.: Nr. 88

Rgds,
Kaczmarek

[keith A]

Many thanks chaps, once again I am in your debt. I had thought he was more successful because he held both the EK I and EKII, and I was misled by the OKL fighter claims listing, assuming the victory claim number was an personal rather than a unit tally based on confirmation. The sources I have read list him with 5 or more victories (Kracker, Magnus) but given his career prior to leading 10./JG2 the tally of 3 seems justified.

best regards

Keith

[Kaczmarek]

Originally Posted by keith A

I had thought he was more successful because he held both the EK I and EKII, . . .

For German Fighters of the Western Front it was usually:

shooting down a Fighter (single engined a/c, e.g. P-51) 1 point + EK II
shooting down a four-engined a/c (Bomber, e.g. B-17) 3 points + EK I

Rgds,
Kaczmarek

[keith A]

Thanks Kaczmarek. I thought that eight kills were needed for the EKI but my information was very dated (Think I read it in Tolliver and Constables "Horrido" years ago. I see now that three points were a requirement for the medal.

best regards

Keith

[keith A]

Eight kills were the requirement for an Eastern Front pilot according to my notes.

best regards

Keith