II/JG3:19/04/43

[focusfocus]

Hello

Can someone explain this in T.Woods list.

Ltn Karl-Ludwig Seewald=Eyrich:6/JG3 Il-2 85813 at 1.000m 17.05

Ltn Hartwig Dohse=Ludtke:5/JG3 LaGG-3 85436 at 500m 17.12

Uffz Waldemar Eyrich=Forg:6/JG3 LaGG- 85436 at 500m 17.12

Thanks in advance
Michel

[Rottler]

Hello Michel,

these claims were originally assigned to Uffz Waldemar Eyrich, Uffz Horst Lüdtke and Fw Rasso Förg.
The same is listed in the II./JG 3 chronicle of Prien/Stemmer from 1996.
After later findings the claims were assigned to Lt Karl-Heinz Seewald, Lt Hartwig Dohse and Uffz Waldemar Eyrich. The entries in JFV 12/I (published 2012) differ from Tony Wood‘s combat claim list: there are listed Lt Friedrich-Wilhelm Schmidt, Lt Hartwig Dohse and Lt Karl-Ludwig Seewald.

Regards
Leo

[Chris Goss]

You have to remember that Tony was the first to try and log these claims and in the years since, new information has come to light so I would work backwards to Tony's list not forwards from it

[focusfocus]

Well,I understand better
Michel

[Johannes]

Hallo Michel
The daily mikrofilms for April 1943 East are the worst to read, there are very underexposed, almost unreadable in places. Usually they are easier to read at the bottom of each sheet. Usually all you can see are shadows, or bits of each word, but if an aircraft then it's possible to work it out. I had my April 43 mikrofilms professionally cleaned-up and put onto a disk, not only does this make it much, much easier to read, but am now able to zoom in, but as it is I didn't get the 19th done, which leads me to believe this days mikrofilms were not so bad, possibly the easiest day to read of the month.

The man who viewed the mikrofilms for the Prien books, is a much better reader of names than Tony Woods, in fact I can only find a few mistakes for him, with the exception of II./JG2 in Afrika, the file was somehow corrupted, all the details are correct, except the pilots names.

It is Dohse at 1712 with 5./JG3 500 metres altitude a LaGG-3.
It is Seewald at 1705 with 6./JG3 no altitude an Il-2
I must have had severe difficulty reading the other for 6./JG3, but I have Eyrich making a claim at 1715 hrs at 500 metres altitude a LaGG-3

The Staffel mikrofilm for 6./JG3 would not be as difficult to read as the daily mikrofilm, but this has date and time only, no other details. I assume I checked this to get the differing time.




Kind Regards

Johannes

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello Johannes,

can you check the time of JG3 claims for I-16s on 11.Apr.43:
Stab/JG3 at 05:35-05:44 (3 claims)
5./JG3 at 05:16-05:28 (4 claims).
The hour seems to be wrong. Are the digits well readable?

Kind regards,
Andrey

[Johannes]

Hi Andrey

As I had this dates page cleaned-up, you can be sure it was of poor quality to read. Sometimes whilst copying out these pages which are twenty claims per page, it was just hard working-out where on the sheet I was, and the closer to the top of each sheet, the harder it was to read. Also different units had these daily claims in different handwriting, and pens of differing quality.

The 5./JG3 claims:-

0516 hrs Joachim Kirschner 1200 metres grid 85111
0518 hrs Hans Grünberg 1000 metres grid 86774
0524 hrs Joachim Kirschner 900 metres grid 86746
0528 hrs Hans Grünberg 400 metres grid 76764

Stab./JG3

only two!

0535 hrs Albrecht Walz 1000 metres grid 8511
0544 hrs Albrecht Walz 50 metres grid 8673

I believe that Kirschner and Grünberg were "over-claiming" together, in a big way, it would be interesting to match their claims against losses.

After April 1943 then October 1944 is the next worst mikrofilm for reading in the East.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Johannes, thank you a lot!

Originally Posted by Johannes

Stab./JG3
only two!
0535 hrs Albrecht Walz 1000 metres grid 8511
0544 hrs Albrecht Walz 50 metres grid 8673

According to JFV, also the following:
0535 hrs Hans Weik I-16 ... grid 8531 (Wood gives 8511)
Is it error?

Originally Posted by Johannes

I believe that Kirschner and Grünberg were "over-claiming" together, in a big way, it would be interesting to match their claims against losses.

Only two I-16 were lost that day, so the overclaim was considerable, 6-7 instead of 2.

Kind regards,
Andrey

[Johannes]

Hi Andrey

Actually there were three for Stab./JG3, your details are correct 0835 hrs grid 8511 and Weik, same time as Walz, but the Walz claims have Staffel nr.288,290 and Weik's 289 so slightly after.

I would imagine that Kirschner/Grünberg were actually "fake-claims" and didn't even make enemy contact, therefor the likely hood is that Weik and Walz were the actual victors....honest claimers.

Drop me your e.mail address and I'll try to forward the sheets to you for April 1943.

Kind regards

Johannes

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hi Johannes,

Thank you again!

I sent you a PM

Kind regards,
Andrey