Heinkel He 51

[Seaplanes]

Thanks to the log book of test pilot Heinrich of the Heinkel factory in Rostock-Marienehe and the repair and maintenance reports from Bundesarhiv-Militärarchiv plus some other sources, the following production break-down can be made for the He 51:
W.Nr. 25-132 He 51C Factory not known.First aircraft delivered in February 1936.
W.Nr. 242-249 He 51C Factory not known
W.Nr. 429-430 He 51a + He 51b two prototypes by Heinkel
W.Nr. 801-890 He 51C Factory not known
W.Nr. 994-995 He 51V-5 and V-6 by Heinkel
W.Nr. 996-1009 He 51D (See) by Heinkel
W.Nr. 1010-1123 He 51C by Heinkel
W.Nr. 1435-1492 He 51C by Heinkel
W.Nr. 1493-1509 He 51D (See) by Heinkel
W.Nr. 1541-1570 He 51C Factory not known
W.Nr. 1767-1780 He 51C Factory not known
W.Nr. 2134-2158 He 51C Factory not known
W.Nr. 2192-2193 He 51C or D possibly Arado
W.Nr. 2201-2203 He 51C or D possibly Arado
This indicates a production of about 500 aircraft.
Apart from the Heinkel production, I have no links to the other factories involved in the He 51 production, Arado, Erla, AGO and Fieseler.
Is there anyone out there who has the missing links. Please give references to source.

[Lennart Andersson]

Although this is interesting, I do not want to be involved in a discussion about He 51 production batches, because there is much more to the picture than indicated here. I just want to address the version designation issue.

Could we please one and for all (I know that won't happen...!) get rid the old fantasies invented by Green, Nowarra, etc: There never existed any He 51 A-0, He 51 B-0, He 51 B-1, He 51 A-2, etc. Not even the "He 51 W" designation that Green mentions.

The only versions built in series were the He 51 C (Land) and He 51 D (See), and the latter was often referred to as the He 51 S or He 51 See. This is apparent to anyone who has studied original RLM documents.

The designations of the prototypes are more difficult to ascertain and there is conflicting information in different documents. For example, both of the first two prototypes were at one stage called the "He 51 A" and it also seems that they were first referred to as He 49s. It must be kept in mind that aircraft, especially prototypes, were assigned new version letters after major modifications.

Lennart Andersson

[edNorth]

Re end of He 51 production I found this...
(might be incomplete)

Lieferplan 4 dated 1.11.36 (Period 04.36-06.38)
has 2 He 51S planned by Arado Brandenburg in 10.36

Lieferplan 5 dated 1.4.37 (Period 4.37 - 07.39)
has 2 He 51 (BMW VI) by Arado, 1 delivered by 31.3.37, 1 more planned in 4.37

Source: IWM Reel 24

[Seaplanes]

Many thanks to Lennart and Ed. My main intention with this tread was to get the correct type designations for the He 51. There are unfortunately many
"old" thruts out there. Another Heinkel Aircraft, the He 59, has also been subject to many misleading info. A large number of photo captions in previous publications give a He 59B and He 59B-2 as a common version of this aircraft. The fact is that there were three protypes, 2 x He 59a and one He 59b. The series Production was a small batch of He 59C followed by several series of He 59D and He 59E, the latter a navigational trainer. The only conversion of the He 59 was the ASR version that was given the designation He 59N. This was conversions of mainly He 59D aircraft by Walther Bachmann Flugzeugwerke in Ribnitz, but that is another story.

[sidney]

Since the production at Heinkel and the licence companies ran from February 1935 until spring 1937, that is a time-span of some 2+ years, I would like to know whether there were any sub-types to He 51 C variant (such as He 51 C-1, C-2, etc...), as discussed above. I suspect that the He 51 aircraft manufactured in 1937 was somewhat more advanced than the one manufactured in 1935.

[Seaplanes]

In the case of the He 51 it was more or less the same aircraft throughout, the only difference being the undercarriage, wheels for landplanes and floats for seaplanes. There could of course be minor updates to various equipment and installation of optional equipment such as bomb racks or rack for extra fuel tank. However, such changes did not necessarirly require a change of designation. The use of sub-type designations became more common after 1939. Again to use the He 59 as comparison, Heinkel called their He 59D version for just that, where as Arado called their He 59D for D-1. It was never a D-2. RLM and Luftwaffe used only He 59D.

[Lennart Andersson]

Originally Posted by Merlin

The main production versions of the He 51 were indeed the He 51A (207 aircraft) and B (300 aircraft) followed by some 105 He 51C - as published in Prien, Stemmer

I am sorry but this is all wrong. Total production for the RLM was as follows:
473 He 51 Land (Heinkel 145, Arado Brandenburg 69, Erla 80, Fieseler 102 and Ago 77)
33 He 51 See (Heinkel 31 and Arado Brandenburg 2, last example delivered between 1.4 and 1.7.1937)
Total = 506

Lennart A

[sidney]

Post No.16 refers. Thank you for further clarification in this regard.

[Seaplanes]

Comment to Lennart:
There are different figures in a variety of contemporary records. In the RLM Flugzeugbeschaffungsprogramm Nr. 5 von 1. April 1937 the total of He 51 landplanes is given as 458 and for He 51 floatplanes 31 aircraft. The same number of aircraft is given in a letter dated 11. January 1938 giving the number of aircraft for "Ausgelaufende Flugzeugserien".
The RLM Lieferplan Nr. 1a give the breakdown of He 51 landplanes as:
Heinkel 145, Arado 69, Erla 72, Fieseler 102 and AGO 97. However, I do know that these figures reflect what was on order on 01.10.1935 and nothing else These production charts were subject to alterations all the time and makes life difficult for us in 2014. In the Bundesarchiv file RL 3/2617 from end of 1940, give the total He 51 production including prototypes to 502 aircraft. Unfortunately this file only give the output per month totally, not broken down on factory involved. Can I ask what is your source.

[Lennart Andersson]

Originally Posted by Seaplanes

Comment to Lennart:
There are different figures in a variety of contemporary records. In the RLM Flugzeugbeschaffungsprogramm Nr. 5 von 1. April 1937 the total of He 51 landplanes is given as 458 and for He 51 floatplanes 31 aircraft.

Well, not in the copy that I have, LC III(1a1) LPNr 5 v 1.4.37, which is exactly as I indicated, with all 473 already delivered. This number included 458 plus 15 for Erpobung, etc. Such aircraft are not included in all plans, which can cause confusion. I am not sure but I think that they were ordered by different offices (LA and LC).

The same number of aircraft is given in a letter dated 11. January 1938 giving the number of aircraft for "Ausgelaufende Flugzeugserien".

See above. Nachtrag zum Flugzeugbeschaffungs-Programm Nr 8 vom 1.7.38 (dated 25.6.38 and showing numbers for types that were "ausgelaufen") shows 473 He 51 and 33 He 51D.

The RLM Lieferplan Nr. 1a give the breakdown of He 51 landplanes as:
Heinkel 145, Arado 69, Erla 72, Fieseler 102 and AGO 97.

Correct. The first plan was for only 114 Heinkel, 24 Arado Brandenburg and 9 (increased to 12) Fieseler.

In the Bundesarchiv file RL 3/2617 from end of 1940, give the total He 51 production including prototypes to 502 aircraft.

Yes, but it also says 473 for the RLM and 29 "Zivil + Export".

Conclusion: Total production for the RLM was 473 plus 33 of the floatequipped version.

Lennart