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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#31
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Hi Andreas Excellent stuff please go one
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#32
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Hi Andreas,
Thank you for the info about 1st page entries. Maybe the Tschir list is one of the keys to understanding the problem. Some questions are appeared. Planes in the entries 1, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 were damaged during Aug.42. Tschir station was liberated in the end of Nov.42. So damaged planes (incl.3 with 20% damages and 3 with 30% damages) for some unknown reason more than three months has remained at the airfields and some time on railroad. It seems German repair service wasn’t very quick at the place in this case. Or these planes has received additional damages during Soviet air raids, for example. Or something else. About item No.2 (Ju87R-2 WNr.6160 6G+DS, i.e. from II./StG1): production date (Apr.1941) is corresponded to known 61xx series Ju87Rs. Probably WNr.6160 was damaged in Aug.42 like bulk of 1st page entries. II./StG1 really had 3 Ju87R-2 in Aug.42 and according to “Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen” one of them lost due to enemy action. Maybe that's he? Or other lost/damaged Ju87R-2 is known? As the final fates of these planes wasn’t reported by units to GQM Abt.6, it seems they were (on paper) between the front units and repair units at the time of final loss. Is it right? Best regards, Andrey |
#33
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
One reason might be the supply difficulties. The logistical situation of the German 6th A was rather catastrophic even before the Soviet counteroffensive and the very difficult supply situation might well has its effects on the LW. Maybe many of the damaged planes were kept there as sources for spare parts.
Just a thought. Juha |
#34
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Andrey,
The majority of these 10-30% and so are marked as Er in GQ. Ju-87R-2 only loss was 6111 with groupkommander Hpt. Johann Zemsky on August 28, 1942. Quote:
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#35
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Nikita, thank you!
So Ju87R-2 No.6160 was discarded from II./StG1 in Sep.-Oct.42 probably. "Majority" - so with some exceptions? |
#36
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
hello Juha,
Quote:
Best regards, Andrey |
#37
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
My guess is that 6160 may be a wear and tear loss and was not reflected in GQ at all.
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#38
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Maybe it was tear and wear loss initially, yes. But it became a total loss in Nov.42, and nevertheless is absent in GQM returns.
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#39
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
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Just tantamount when damaged plane leaves IAP to PARM for repair and further fate of this plane should be traced in PARMs documents. |
#40
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Quote:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...tflotte+losses Quote:
It seems the same info for Luftwaffe is a total blind-spot. We even can’t say now whether the Luftflotte Staff knew the full info or not. |