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  #1  
Old 29th May 2011, 23:11
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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Me109 E crashed near Lourdes on 11 November 1944

Hi gentlemen,

would any one of you have information about a Me109 E that crashed near the city of Lourdes (south west of france), on the Hautacam mountain ?


Pilot was killed.

Aircraft Type is 100% sure due to data plates found on site.
This aircraft most likely belonged to JG101 based in Pau or Tarbes at the time.

This event took place on 11 november 1944 (local testimony);


I must say I have a doubt concerning the year (not the day) because the german troops retreated in August 1944.

So, this crash may have actually taken place on 11 november 1943, I have a doubt.


can you help ?


Thanks in advance


GC
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Old 30th May 2011, 08:27
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
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Re: Me109 E crashed near Lourdes on 11 November 1944

1943-11-11, 2./JG 101, Bf 109E-7, 5145, 5 rote, Bei Argèles, Absturz. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Gefr Riemer, Kurt, tot
Grab: Berneuil/Frankreich, Block 8, Reihe 12, Grab 301

Matti
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  #3  
Old 30th May 2011, 11:20
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ouidjat ouidjat is offline
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Re: Me109 E crashed near Lourdes on 11 November 1944

Hello Matti,

Still the same difficulties with french cities & places names.
- Argèles does exist as Argèles-sur-Mer but on mediterranean side far from Pau/Tarbes area.
- Argelès does exist too as Argelès-Gazost in Pau - as well in Hautacan area.

Can we suspect a wrong data/writing in original german documents or a wrong transcription?

Since date, type and unit match, we can consider that it's the one Gilles is looking for: most probably.

Cheers, Franck.
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Old 30th May 2011, 11:35
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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Re: Me109 E crashed near Lourdes on 11 November 1944

Thank you VERY MUCH Matti, that's the one.

You are right Franck: these crazy French city names then you have three or four cities with almost the same name !

(although I remember a customer of mine spending three hours in UK in a taxi because the taxi driver took him to a remote "Farnborough" village, totally different from the airshow one..)

Anyway, this is it: Argeles Gazost is close to Lourdes where JG101 was based, so it is 99% sure this Me109 Emil is the good one.

Thanks again to both of you.

GC
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Old 30th May 2011, 13:29
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ouidjat ouidjat is offline
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Re: Me109 E crashed near Lourdes on 11 November 1944

Salut Gilles,

And you know as I know that it's a difficulty even for us French!
Note: 2./JG101 was based in Pau-Ost (?) during that period; Lourdes did concern 3./JG101 following that page http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg101.html. But what was Pau-Ost? Tarbes? Ossun? A simple Airstrip....?

Regards, Franck.
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Old 30th May 2011, 13:51
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Re: Me109 E crashed near Lourdes on 11 November 1944

...
Ooooo One more note:
Matti wrote that Gefr. Kurt Riemer grab was in Berneuil. Still - again and again - we can find at least two Berneuil; One in Picardie and the other one in Charente.

What ever the place it's strange to get his body from Argelès-Gazost to ... Berneuil, Charente one. Any explanations? Something to do with, let's say, South-West LW High command place?...

Regards, France.
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Old 30th May 2011, 15:14
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Me109 E crashed near Lourdes on 11 November 1944

Hi Franck,

Actually sometimes after WWII, the German dead in Southern France were gathered in big war cemeteries. As a general rule, all dead of Southwest France were gathered in Berneuil and all dead of Southeast France in Dagneux, near Lyon.

Berneuil war cemetery now has 8 342 graves coming from 15 departements.

See http://www.volksbund.de/fileadmin/re...20Berneuil.pdf
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Old 30th May 2011, 15:20
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Re: Me109 E crashed near Lourdes on 11 November 1944

Merci Laurent!
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Old 30th May 2011, 15:36
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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Re: Me109 E crashed near Lourdes on 11 November 1944

Merci à you all.

I shall write an article about these Me109 Artifacts I discovered on site.

Have a good semaine;

GC

Last edited by gilles collaveri; 13th December 2011 at 20:24.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 17:47
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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more French nit picking:

you have the Charente (Dept Number 16) and the Charente Maritime (17). These are different Departments

Berneuil is in Charente Maritime, so, I typed a mistake when I wrote "Berneuil in Charente"

I was told of my mistake today by a Charentaise (girl from there)..

Difficult to be a "mistake free" historian !

Cheers

GC
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