28/11/1944 410 BG crash near Liège/Bierset (Belgium)

[Luc Vervoort]

Hi,

The mission summary for the mission on 28/11/1944 - Field Order 648 (9th Bombardment Division(L)) mentions for 410 BG :

1 a/c crash landed near Liege/Bierset A/F (K 405310). Two crew members bailed out before pilot belly-landed the a/c. This a/c bombed the primary target.

Any additional information available ?

Many thanks and best regards

Luc

[Alex Smart]

Not sure if this helps but from Losses of the 8th &9th Air Forces vol 5.

Page 464
30 November 1944
Salvaged
A-20G-35-DO
43-9967(5D-M).
410BG/644BS
GC S/Sgt Johnie R,Sills.
On the 29th November 1944 a/c was towed to end of Runway 23 at Voisins/A-58, for late night flying. Late night flying was called off. At 08.40 hrs the following morning crew chief was taxiing a/c back to the Squadron area. He had taxied about 200 yards when the nose gear buckled and the a/c skidded on its nose.RTD.

And

A-20 Havoc BB896
Unknown
Listed as Salvaged NBD by Stanstead on this date.

30 November 1944
Page 471
December 1944
A-20 410 BG/644BS(5D).
Pilot - Lt.Winkler.
G. ?
Took off Cormeilles,France on an Operational mission.
Crash landed in the Eupen area of Eastern Belgium after both engines failed. The two gunners had bailed out safely, 3 RTD.

And then

1 December 1944
A-20G-30-DO
43-9752
410BG/646BS(8U-O)
P. 1Lt. Ward L, Neff
G. S/Sgt. James E,Doherty
G. S/Sgt. Myron Hayes.
A/c suffered engine failure on take off from Coulommiers,France on an operational mission to Saarlautern,Germany. Crashed with full bomb load at Voisins,France. Both gunners parachuted to safety but the chute of Lt.Neff failed to deploy properly and he was killed.
1KOM, 2 RTD.
Note:- Buried in Solers Cemetery, Plot D-7-130 before final Burial in plot B-10-13.

Nothing about a crash on the 28th.

Alex

[Leendert]

Eupen area is some 45 kms. from given coordinates for crash K405310 (= Liège outskirts). Could it be that Eupen area is where the two crew bailed out?
Also, 30 Nov 1944: date of crash or date of salvage mentioned in Losses book?

Regards,
Leendert

[Luc Vervoort]

Alex and Leendert,

Many thanks for your replies.

I'll check for the date before and after 28/11/1944.

Best regards

Luc

[Alex Smart]

Hi,
In regards to Havoc I BB896.
AB's RAF Serials BA100 - BZ999 updated issue 2006.
Has the following.
23 Douglas Havoc I's delivered in September 1940 from French contact F-271 and some modified as Intruders (I), Turbinlites (T) and Pandoras (P) as shown.
BB896 - P - 93/51OTU - To USAAF 9.4.43.

In regards to those listed under the Salvaged heading. They were -
Page 464
43-9967 - 410BG/644 BS.
BB896 - 70 SG( 9th AF Group) but do not know what The 'S' stands for, not in the index of abbreviations as far as I can find.
Would it be "Service Group" , but would they go on Bombing Missions ?
This Group had 1 B-26G and 2 Havoc I aircraft Salvaged between 1 Oct 44 and 31 December 44 according to the 8&9 Losses book Page 588.

Page 471
43-9752 - 410BG/646BS - NEFF,/DOHERTY/HAYS..

NEW,
Page 472/3
2 December
MISSING IN ACTION
A-20-25-DO
43-9894 (6Q)
410BG/647BS
P - 2Lt.Charles W.PALMER +
G - Cpl. Henry A, MORRIS <
G - Sgt. George E, BEAUCHAMP +
MACR 11902
2 POW (+), 1 RTD(<).
T/O Coulommiers, France on a bombing mission to Saarlautern,Germany.
On return the right engine overheated and was smoking, and Lt.Palmer made a crash landing just inside the German lines.
In fact Cpl. MORRIS managed to escape to the US lines.
This was near Erbringen/Saar, about 17 miles North West of Saarbrucken.
An L-4 arrived over the site to pick up the crewbut was driven off by a burst of German MG fire from nearby woods.

Alex

[Alex Smart]

28/10/1944
A-20J-15-DO
43-21732 (8U)
410BG/646BS
MACR 15869

And

A-20G -35-DO
43-10170
410BG/644 BS(5D).
MACR 9622

AND

Salvaged

A-20 (5D)
410BG/644BS
P. Lt.Stillings
3 RTD.

A-20G-25-DO
43-9375 "(5D-X)
"Pauhuska Princess"
1 Kia, 2 Rtd
MACR13037

Four Possibilities

Alex

[Leendert]

Lt. Winkler in #2 may be identified as 2nd Lt Charles M. Winkler (O-755487) who was with 410th BG according a (pictorial) history on https://digicom.bpl.lib.me.us/ww_reg_his/131/ Unfortunately not much text written that can shed some light....

Leendert

[Luc Vervoort]

Alex and Leendert,

Many thanks for your replies.

The crash was reported in the Mission Summary for 28/11/1944 and this document was made on 29/11/1944. So the date must be 28/11/1944 or earlier.

Best regards

Luc