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  #1  
Old 16th March 2008, 19:51
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Perssonel LW's losses over Poland IX 1939?

Hi
I wonder if exist any kind of list containing German crews: killed or missed or wounded during air war over Poland in 1-30 IX 1939?

How many Luftwaffe cew's were killed, and/or later DoW too (after IX 1939).

The books done by M. Emmering are perfectly "cleaned" from such perssonel losses data, he is focusing only on material losses (mostly if more then 60% damages).

Is is possible to have quite precise estimation of personal losses sustained by LW over Poland in this period?

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Mirek Wawrzyński
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  #2  
Old 16th March 2008, 21:16
robert robert is offline
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Re: Perssonel LW's losses over Poland IX 1939?

"The books done by M. Emmering are perfectly "cleaned" from such perssonel losses data, he is focusing only on material losses (mostly if more then 60% damages)"

I think you just kidding or you don`t know these books.
Just read these books and you will know all personal losses from fighter, bomber and Schlachtflieger units.

Regards

Robert
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Old 17th March 2008, 20:26
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Re: Perssonel LW's losses over Poland IX 1939?

Hi Rober
I do not know how much do you know Emmerling books (3: 2002-2006) but I sustain what I have said about this claim.
Thera are no exacte data = full name list = about LW's loses over Poland sustained by LW's units.

There are of course in the text mentioned from time to time such information (personal loses), but this is not a standard procedure but his "wish" or something else (? - "eveil knows").
Second if you know his books the losses under 60% are also not fully included, and mentioned in the end of the each chapter (day-cahpter).

I wonder, but I do not find this information too, about comabt mission (sorties) doane by LW's units (force's arm) over Poland too. For example how much were done mission/sorties by fighter, or by bomber, or by dive-bomber (general data).

Emmerling well knows my opinion about his book, after the first he got my letter about the part I.

Sorry but I well know what I want to say. Anyway he is a good source about German, material losses over 60%, other losses are presented from time to time (if cocnerning 60-20% losses).

Regards,
Mirke Wawrzyński

PS
Of course if you put his own, private list about these losses it is interesting to know it it cocenring such data about losses according each "force arm"
1. Fighter
2. Bomber
3. Dive-bomber units.

KIA, KIFA, MIA, WIA
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Old 17th March 2008, 21:18
robert robert is offline
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Re: Perssonel LW's losses over Poland IX 1939?

Hi,

e.g I have 115 German planes lost and damaged (at various degree - therein some 60 damaged below 60%) only on the 1st September so I don`t understand what are you taking about?
I compiled this data at 90% from Marius books so I really can advise you to read carefully Marius books.

Robert
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  #5  
Old 28th April 2010, 12:12
Marius Marius is offline
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Re: Perssonel LW's losses over Poland IX 1939?

Hi Robert,
I think Mirek is kidding us and me especially. Just another one senseless personal attack directed against "Germans". I don`t understand this. Auschwitz cannot be the reason alone.

"Cleaned" personal losses is one more myth.

All known personal and material losses under 60% (so far known from the documentation) are given in the text. The complete material losses for September 1939 (also 20-60%) are listed in the appendixes.

Regards,
Marius
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Old 28th April 2010, 17:29
RT RT is offline
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Talking Re: Perssonel LW's losses over Poland IX 1939?

I hv to add that , prior of the books of Marius , we knew , from the HQ returns 200 or 300 losses after the books of Marius we hv now a bit less than a thousand ...names collected is also around the thousand

Difficult to believe that huge amount of "hidden" losses could be added

Remi
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  #7  
Old 28th April 2010, 20:10
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Re: Perssonel LW's losses over Poland IX 1939?

I have no reason to joke. I'm interested in (along with lists of equipment losses), I wonder are always accurate personal losses during the war.
Just your (Marius), publications do not contain too much data on this information (as well as losses below 60%).

The second major flaw of your publication is to avoid feeding the number of flight (general data, statistics). It is difficult to determine whether the LW crew performed for example, only 100 Ju 87s sorties 1-28 IX 39, or for example 10.000 or more or less?

By the way, is that manipulating and bending the facts to their own data and personal vision of history is clear to me. R. Michulec in a similar style to your writing about the fighting in 1939.

BTW personally I feel sorry for the time and energy on attacking someone, like for example Marius E or Robert M.

In writing history, what counts is whether someone is trustworthy and knows how to do something fairly or not. That's it, or someone who wants to be objective and seek the truth or not. Unfortunately, in the case of Marius E. and Robert M. I have on this matter serious doubt, despite the fact that I know and have both the authors of the publications and will use them with caution.

Regards,
Mirek Wawrzyński
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  #8  
Old 28th April 2010, 20:22
robert robert is offline
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Re: Perssonel LW's losses over Poland IX 1939?

I`m sorry for you. You are just wrong with all your statements. You should read the book of Marius and then try to judge them. I think you did not see a single German Luftwaffe document for Polish Campaign :-).
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  #9  
Old 28th April 2010, 20:32
Marius Marius is offline
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Re: Perssonel LW's losses over Poland IX 1939?

HTML Code:
By the way, is that manipulating and bending the facts to their own data and personal vision of history is clear to me.
Surely. And it is not needed to proof that. You are knowing it best.

HTML Code:
The second major flaw of your publication is to avoid feeding the number of flight (general data, statistics). It is difficult to determine whether the LW crew performed for example, only 100 Ju 87s sorties 1-28 IX 39, or for example 10.000 or more or less?
How do you think about doing it yourself? Read the text and you will find everything you are looking for.

Regards,
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  #10  
Old 28th April 2010, 23:08
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: Perssonel LW's losses over Poland IX 1939?

Hopefully, the first volume of Larry's ambitious 'Eagles Over Europe' project will answer this long debated question.
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