P-38 - 17 Aug 1944 - Nonant-le-Pin (Orne), France -friendly fire?

[Leendert]

According a story on http://www.90thdivisionassoc.org/His...%20FA%20Bn.pdf two USAAF P-38s came down to strafe a US artillery column (343rd FA Bn) in error. See page 19.

In the process one P-38 came in too low, hit telephone poles and crashed into a gun section truck, with 4 US soldiers killed.

This all was in/near Nonant-le-Pin, France on 17 Aug 1944. This place is some kms/miles E. of Argentan.

Pilot of P-38 was burned beyond recognition, it says.

Who can identify the pilot, his FG/FS and serial of P-38?

Thanks for any suggestion.

Regards,

Leendert

[RSwank]

This attack has come up before and I think it is possible (as suggested on this link) that this was the crash of Robert C Loft from the 474th.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...t=2670&page=73

It was not unusual for fighter pilots to be unsure of exactly where they were when flying these types of attacks. Possibly the only way to rule Loft in or out would be to see his IDPF file.

[Alex Smart]

Hello ,
Expect you already know there are eight MACR's for P38's this date, one 14 FG three 82FG.
Others were -
Three 367 FG, MACR's 8196;8580;8503 and one 474FG MACR 8501.
As to others perhaps if in allied areas may be more difficult to discover.
Alex

[Stig Jarlevik]

As I see it there is a basic flaw with this theory

1Lt Loft officially came down one mile east of La Goulafrière. This is in my mind too far from Nonant-le-Pin.

Thinking a little outside the box, how certain is the date 17 Aug? I notice that on the next day 485FS (370FG) lost two aircraft in the Argentan area. Especially 44-23510 flown by 1Lt Royal Madden has very little details listed in Losses of the US 8th and 9th AF. Perhaps worth some more research?

B Rgds
Stig

[KM1957]

For the 370th losses on August 18, Madden crashed 10 miles SE of Dreux-Jumeaux after encountering bad weather. He was last seen chandelling to the left in thick overcast. King was hit by flak southeast of Argentan.

Kent

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Kent

Can't find Dreux-Jumeaux on Google Maps, but if it has anything to do with Dreux it is not, as far as I can judge, in the Argentan area so it looks like we can rule out Madden as well. If 485FS was on an interdiction mission behind the lines Dreux would fit such a scenario.

This leaves us with nothing left, that is with a "diary" or USAAF report which are out of line with each other. If we are supposed to fit in Nonant-le-Pin with La Goulafrière we either end up with a ground unit who had no idea where they were or a USAAF crash report being equally lost.

B Rgds
Stig

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Have been looking in "Accident-Report.com"
And found the following.
DREUX-JUMEAUX
1944
AUGUST
3rd
True, Warren E - 44-23674.
7th
Carroll, Arthur C - 42-67970
Lamb, James H - 42-67911
15th
Jonas, Gordon E - 42-25902(P47).

Have you looked into these ?
Alex

[Rainer]

Could Dreux-Jumeaux be a misspelling of the airfield Deux-Jumeaux (Advanced Landing Ground A-4) in the Normandy?

[KM1957]

It is Deux-Jumeaux. I evidently added the "r" without noticing. Sorry about that.

Kent

[Laurent Rizzotti]

I found nothing to identify the aircraft.

Two of the four artillerymen killed in the collision are buried in France, and the ABMC database confirms they died on the 17th.

Such loss was in friendly territory but not in England, so there will be no MACR and no accident report.

I tried using the USAAF casualties database at http://www.usaafdata.com/?q=search by setting P-38 or F-5 in the details fields, but all P-38 pilots killed this day were killed in other places and there is none listed with F-5. Still casualties in the databse are also listed without their aircraft, but there is no way to search by date.

The ABMC has nothing either, so this mysterious pilot was probably reburied in the USA after the war.

Last suggestion: a pair of P-38 might be actually tactical recons F-5 that flew usually in pairs. From the description of the incident, the aircraft came down to strafe but it is not clear if they actually fired (at least no damage or casualty is listed due to their fire). Could it be a buzz pass rather than a strafing pass ? Or an attempt by recon pilots to identify the column ?

A check of the unit history of the TRG active in August 1944 might be interesting.