23 December 1944 MACR 15984

[SteveR]

Does anyone have MACR 15984? I can't seem to find it on the NARA website. It should refer to the loss of the 1Lt. Walter P. Garbisch crew of the 1st Pathfinder Squadron (Provisional) on 23 December 1944. I believe the serial number of their B-26 was 44-67881.

I'm trying to find out when and where they were shot down and what their target was.

There's a number of different versions regarding the loss of this crew. To summarize:

Leading the 387th BG to Mayen. I've not been able to find the names of the two Pathfinder crews leading the 387th; one was lost, I think it was the one leading the 2nd Box.

Leading the 397th BG, location not given.

Leading the 397th BG to Ahrweiler. Problem is the the 397th didn't go to Ahrweiler, they went to Eller. From reading the Mission Reports and Mission Folder for the 397th, I believe they had only one Pathfinder, pilot named Dubois (IIRC), and that it wasn't lost.

Leading the 391st BG to Ahrweiler. Yes, the 391st went to Ahrweiler, but their Pathfinder was the Capt. Enoch Longworth crew (shot down).

Perhaps the most confusing info comes from Losses of the US 8th and 9th Air Forces volume 5 by Bishop, Hey, Franken, and Cillessen, which states on page 515: "Thirty B-26s plus two PFF a/c took from Roye/Amy, France to attack railroad viaduct at Ahrweiler, Germany. They flew to St. Vith, Belgium, then to Kinderbeuern about six miles east-north-east of Wittlich and then almost directly north to the T/A. Moderate flak was encountered all the way from St. Hubert to Kinderbeuern, a/c receiving some damage. Weather conditions at Ahrweiler were suitable for visual bombing, and the formations made a second run on the target, encountering intense and accurate flak. The first box of the formation completed its second run but just after the second box made its run a burst of red flak went up to signal the flak batteries to cease fire in order that enemy fighters could attack the formations. Then some 50-75 FW 190s and Me 109s began attacking at 1155 hrs and lasted until 1218 hrs. This B-26 was shot down 0942 hrs by pilot Meindl of JG/1. Sixteen a/c and 911 men were lost, and 12 of the 16 B-26s that returned to base suffered damage by flak, fighters, or both. 7 KIA."

The time discrepancy in that statement stands out - "0942" vs. "1155 - 1218." 1155 to 1218 hours and the rest of the description matches up with the 391st BG attack on Ahrweiler, but 0942 hours and Meindl match the 387th BG attack on Mayen (Obfw. Franz Meindl claimed a B-26 at 0942 hours, location 05 Ost/RO-1 per Prien in JFV 13/V).

Sorry for being so long-winded! Does anyone have MACR 15984 or the names of the Pathfinders leading the 387th BG so I can figure this out?

Thank you very much in advance for any help!

[RSwank]

There are only 5 pages of the MACR both on fold3 and in the archives.

MACR 15984 starts here:
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/91171625?objectPage=2

Missing pages may be misfiled.

[SteveR]

Thanks for posting that link and for doing it when only the short, fat-fingered version of my post was showing!

What a mess that file is!

[RSwank]

On the MACR given in the link in post #2, it does say that the 391st BG had two pathfinders. If one was Longworth was the other one Garbisch?

The MACR 15002 for Longworth is: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/91161189

[Leendert]

A 391st BG account of 23 Dec 1944 here: https://www.391bombgroup.org.uk/ahrweiler_mynn.php. Perhaps it gives a bit more insight.


Also check https://catalog.archives.gov/id/91156635?objectPage=2 which has 42-95878 with pilot Capt. Wilbur Cox as a 1st Pathfinder loss on 23 dec 1944.

Other references give Garbisch in # 878...

Regards,
Leendert

[RSwank]

After reading through the account of the 391st that Leendert posted, maybe Garbisch was not flying with that group. If Garbisch crashed at Esslingen (the Esslingen near Stuttgart?) we probably need to find an attack that went further south. (It might be worthwhile to try and get the IDPF file for Garbisch, just to see what other details it contains.) The entire crew is buried in the Zachary Taylor National Cemetery.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...rnard-garbisch


The 17th BG lost one plane (MACR 11590). https://catalog.archives.gov/id/91113132

Reading though that MACR it appears they were attacking a target in the "right" area. The route they flew is laid out in the MACR.

What is known about the 17BG mission on December 23 and any pathfinders assigned?

[Rottler]

Eßlingen is a community about 7 km south of Bitburg/Eifel.

Regards
Leo

[Leendert]

An oversight here: https://b26.com/page/marauder_missio...er_23_1944.htm

Leendert

[SteveR]

There was a second Pathfinder for the 391st BG but it aborted a few minutes after take off due to a blown tire on take off, so the 391st went with only one, the Longworth crew. Thanks RSwank, I already had the MACR for Longworth.

I also already had MACR 11590 for the Spence crew of the 17th BG. 17th BG was part of 1st TACAF, 12th AF. 1st Pathfinder was 9th AF, I don't believe they provided crews to the 12th AF. In any event, I believe that Spence was the only crew lost on the 17th BG's mission on 23 December (though they lost more on the 24th.

Thanks Leendert, I'd already read (and bookmarked) the 391st BG account; unfortunately IIRC it doesn't speak of their Pathfinder. In any event, it's certain that their Pathfinder was Longworth.

The Cox crew was shot down leading the 322nd BG. The other Pathfinder leading the 322nd was the Bartels crew; Bartels got his severely damaged B-26 back to base, whereupon it was salvaged.

The overview on b26.com has Garbisch flying with the 397th BG and it's what first had me believing that Garbisch lead the 397th BG. On Monday I received the files on the 397th from AFHRA; they're what led me to realize he wasn't flying with the 397th.

Esslingen near Stuttgart would seem to not be a fit as again I don't believe that 1st Pathfinder provided crews to lead missions by the 17th BG (or the 319th, or the 320th, or...). Eßlingen near Bitburg (thanks Rottler!) seems a much better fit, and I've seen it referenced once (might have been on Find A Grave, I can't remember where I saw it) as the place where Garbisch's B-26 and crew remains were found. Knowing how bad Americans were at the time (and still are in many cases) with precision on German names/locations, I note that there's also a Hohenfels-Essingen north of and between Gerolstein and Daun, which would be an even better fit geographically, assuming that Esslingen should really be Essingen.

The five pages in MACR 15984 relating to the Garbisch crew (mixed amongst papers relating to the loss of a B-29 in the Pacific) don't provide any real, definite info on the Garbisch crew, though I can see that this is from where Bishop, Hey, et al derived most of the account in their book.

I've seen something that claims that MACR 14876 also pertains to the Garbisch crew but I can't find that one on NARA either.

I've got the OPSUMS for 1st Pathfinder for 23 December mixed in with the reports of the 397th BG, 98th CBW, and 99th CBW for that day but unfortunately the OPSUMS don't provide any names.

I can't order anything else from AFHRA this month (already did) so I suppose I'll have to see what they have on 1st Pathfinder and the 387th BG and order them in September.

[RSwank]

Steve,

Did you ever request the IDPF file for Garbisch or any of the men on the plane? If not, I may request Walter's.

Rolland