7.07.41 and claims/victories of JG 54?

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

In the OdB of 11 OAE PW NKWD were SBs and MBR-2s ( a zvieno - 3), some crews were transfered to bomber units of RKKA, and the crews of MBRs were transferred to VVS VMF KBF.
I know that 2 MBR were lost over Finnish territory with whole crews. There were send in secret mission behind Finnish territory to drop agents, but were missing with whole crews. The body of them were found quite late, in the 60-ties or so.

I do not remember any bomber action of SBs crews over Finnish territory, they fight only against German, If I am right?

mw

[Nokose]

I ran across a good description of Tuomien's battle on the 30 Jul 41 going through sites with his name. He describes how he saw two SB flying together and how he shot them down. After the war he became a taxi driver.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

This is a strange infomation? After the battle on 7.07.41 this whole flight was almost total destroyed (there were left only 2 SBs + 1 USB). His commander major Pietrov had returned on USB to Moscow on 11.07, where he began retaining on Pe-2. A few surviving crews were disperced among other flights of 4. SAD/35. SBAP,

2xMBR-2 of 11. OAE were lost on 29.07.41, both - MIA.

So, these 2 SB's were not from 11. OAE, I think so. It does not fit.

mw

[Nokose]

I ran the names of the two SB pilots they listed and the unit was 11 OAE PV NKVD (deputy AE C.O.) St. Lt Vasiliy Petrovich Starostin (MIA) and (flight C.O.) St. Lt. Nikolay Ustinovich Sidorenko (MIA).

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Something wrong with our data. According mine, the two commander pilot's names were: starszyj let. W. Starostin and second was G. Sawczenko (Savchenko). One name is overlaping with your.

I think that it was MBR-2 crews in secret mission behing Finnish territory, they had to drop agens/diversants, lost on 29.07.
In this period it should be no SBs of NKWD's units on the front, only see zvieno.

mw

BTW
Commander of whole 11, OAE was major Pietrov. He flown on SB and took part in bomber mission. SB since 22.06.41 were sent on German units in Latvia, later over Russia. The last combat mission was done on 7.07.41. Since 1.07.41 SB took of to the action from Wechna (Vehna) airfiled and later from Staraja Russa. The base was too far to Finland already on 7.07.41.

[Nokose]

Are these the last names of the pilots lost on the 07 Jul 41: Anchuk, Korolev, Samokhin and the survivor Tsatsenko? All of which are not listed in the OBD.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Yes, there are: 3 KIA crews plus one force landed, all were wounded, but returned to the unit later. After the combat on 7.07.41 this flight had not existed more. 2 SB were handed over to 4. SAD and 1 USB had returned to Moscow (Bykovo) with Pietrov on 11.07 to report to comand of Air Brigade of PW NKWD. Soon they began to form new unit on Pe-2.

mw.

[Nokose]

Mirek, I went back and found the description for Touminen for the 30 Jul 1941 08:35-09:20 over Aunus, he was flying Fiat G.50. "I flew towards Vitele and Tuulos, flying away 1000 metres higher towards the sun. I caught the planes about 10 km east of Tuulos. There was no gunner in the wing aircraft and I shot a burst straight over the rudder, when it pulled straight up and went into a spin. I shot two burst to the gunner of the other and after that from above a burst to the back of the pilot and the same followed as with the first aircraft. The armour piercing bullets appeared to go well through the pilot's armour plate. Combat altitude 4,200 m. My plane was FA-26". Below this description it had credited as probable as there was no witnesses. The other kills had some Soviet unit listed but I think that they were looking for main stream KA VVS units and no one thought about checking a NKVD border unit. These are listed with the list on Finnish war victories on another website.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Trouble is the lack of application type in his statment? The difference in shape between MBR-2 and SB is enormous. Finnish pilot rather should recognize the type of aircraft shot down, the mistake is unlikely. BTW, FAF's pilot had shot from quite short distance 50-200 m.

The fact is the loss of two MBR-2 29 July 1941. Reason unknown by the Russians? It could lead to a collision, another possibility could be shot down? In late July of Finland were sent only to the former 11 OAE PM NKVD seaplanes. Bombers fought on and elsewhere.

July 30 may have a different air combat with bombers RKKA, which is also possible?

mw

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

BTW, why not Tuomikoski in FA-33, who claimed excatly a MBR-2 in the same area, and in the same time like Tuominen in FA-26?

mw