Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > The Second World War in General

The Second World War in General Please use this forum to discuss other World War Two related subjects not covered by the main categories.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10th February 2010, 23:11
wwiiaircraftinstruments's Avatar
wwiiaircraftinstruments wwiiaircraftinstruments is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 3
wwiiaircraftinstruments is on a distinguished road
Exclamation Big Collection WWII Aircraft Instrument Panels and Instruments confiscated

Hello,

For years I have been collecting WWII aircraft instruments. I have built up quite an impressive historical collection.

Monday the 18th of January I had an 'invasion' of police officers & health care people in my house. The reason was a P-51 panel that was intercepted at customs (since it was sent with surface shipping...)
They entered the house at 08:30 and my girlfriend and I were not allowed to leave the building. at 14:30 they left with my WWII aircraft instruments collection.
They found my collection in the living room and confiscated everything. The reason is the luminous paint on the pointers and face of the instruments contains radium-226 which is apparently radioactive.
They told me that they will place it in concrete and dump it somewhere and that it can't pass the Dutch border anymore.

Now I have to prepare myself for a court case.
Is it legal in your country to have WWII aircraft instruments in your home?
Did you ever hear of a similar case?

I have found a good lawyer and he will request the return of the items.
For obtaining information regarding this matter I have read a lot of articles on the internet. Some are very negative about Radium-226
I called a seller in the Netherlands, the RAF Duxford Museum, Museum Speyer, 2 small aviation museums in the Netherlands, a watches & clocks dealer and a few aviation enthusiasts. Unfortunately I still don't know much more about the subject.
I have checked the law and it is not clear. If you are going to show it to the public as in a museum you need a license, but as a privat person you cannot obtain such a license.
I have bought loads of items from a lot of different countries and never had a problem. I have received most of them by post, declaring 'old used wwII aircraft instruments'
I have brought a complete Ju-87 & a Ju-88 panels from the UK to the Netherlands by plane without any problem at customs.

I feel quite helpless and that this hobby is illegal is quite shocking news for me. I would even prefer to go to prison than lose the collection this way.

An overview of the Items that were taken:

Complete Panels:

Luftwaffe:
Manned fi 103, DFS Olympia Meise, JU-87 D, Ju 88 A-4, Me 109 G-6, Focke Wulf A-8, He-162, He 219.

Allied:
Spitfire mk XIV, Mustang P-51 D
3 blind flying panels RAF early, mid and late war. I also had some very rare RAF instruments such as 2x Spitfire fuel gauge 1x Hurricane fuel gauge.

Instruments:

2 x very big Luftwaffe compass (the one under the Ju-88 panel and in the 'back seat' of the Me-110)
5 x big compass
4 x small compass fl 23334
15 Horizons
10 x Turn & bank
10 Speedometers
15 Altimeters
...etc etc etc
And a lot of very rare gauges, many in mint condition.

15 Japanese instruments.

I had 150-200 instruments!! of which 80% Luftwaffe.

I am working on a list of all the instruments that were taken, I will post it soon.

My first concern is the destruction of this unique historical, technical material. My second concern is that I am completely broke, for years I have spent every euro I had for this fascinating hobby.

Since I have to fight against the Dutch goverment I need a miracle, a good lawyer and all the relevant information I could get, so if you have any official, written information or statements from specialists that could be useful in my case I would be very grateful.

Thanks for your support!

Liad van Praag

Last edited by wwiiaircraftinstruments; 10th February 2010 at 23:54.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10th February 2010, 23:26
Flitzer Flitzer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 124
Flitzer is on a distinguished road
Re: Big WWII Aircraft Instrument Panels and Instruments confiscated

That sends my blood boiling. Ask them if there is a reward for turning in other locations that have this dangerous material. Start by giving them this address:

14390 Air and Space Museum Parkway
Chantilly, Virginia 20151

There are a lot of other museums with this stuff in plain site with thousands of people walking arms length of this dangerous material every week!

I should hope your case would be laughed out of court, but make sure you keep very close tabs on those items because they tend to "vanish".

Good luck,
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10th February 2010, 23:36
Huib Ottens's Avatar
Huib Ottens Huib Ottens is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 109
Huib Ottens
Re: Big WWII Aircraft Instrument Panels and Instruments confiscated

Hi Laid,

Have you considered contacting "Hart van Nederland" or "de Telegraaf"?

They probably will be interested in presenting this case to the general public and probably nationwide publicity will be helpfull.
__________________
Nurflügel Forever!

Huib
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12th February 2010, 23:21
Adam's Avatar
Adam Adam is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 601
Adam
Re: Big WWII Aircraft Instrument Panels and Instruments confiscated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huib Ottens View Post
Hi Laid,

Have you considered contacting "Hart van Nederland" or "de Telegraaf"?

They probably will be interested in presenting this case to the general public and probably nationwide publicity will be helpfull.
Have you likewise considered contacting your local MP and enlisting the help of someone political?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13th February 2010, 02:47
stephen f. polyak's Avatar
stephen f. polyak stephen f. polyak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 484
stephen f. polyak is on a distinguished road
Re: Big Collection WWII Aircraft Instrument Panels and Instruments confiscated

Good points one and all . . .

However, and I am not being flip, don't think that the actions of the government, medical and law enforcement officials in this case, at this point at least, will yield to a few sprinkles of common sense, reason or even technical facts. Even worse, those factors may not alter the outcome later. Simply, something "radioactive" was shipped (always a no-no without quantification/declaration [but it can be done], and in today’s world of weapons of mass destruction and dirty bombs really an attention/headline getter) and this time detected (overwhelmingly these things aren't), and the trail lend to the recipient (and, worse, more “radioactive” stuff). What's the knee jerk reaction – confiscate! Here in the US, not only the items but the owner may have gone for a ride downtown. While I have doubts that the government will sort this out favorably, that is where you must turn, aided by legal representation. Imagine - believeing they are "protecting" the many - if they come down even harder in terms of individual ownership!

Got to wonder where those items are now “safely and properly” stored.

Last edited by stephen f. polyak; 13th February 2010 at 16:47.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13th February 2010, 11:40
Andy Saunders Andy Saunders is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South East England
Posts: 1,353
Andy Saunders is on a distinguished road
Re: Big Collection WWII Aircraft Instrument Panels and Instruments confiscated

Indeed, so, Stephen!

I am not sure that some of the suggestions about involving the press are such a good idea. One can never be sure the angle the press will take, and that route could MASSIVELY back fire and achieve the opposite effect that Liad might desire. The press might take the government's line in this and go with the story that this is all hugely radioactive and extremely dangerous. I can see the headlines now.

That said, the media probably already know....and someone in that industry will have probably read all of this by now anyway. Its probably only a matter of time before we read lurid and sensational headlines.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10th February 2010, 23:40
Andy Saunders Andy Saunders is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South East England
Posts: 1,353
Andy Saunders is on a distinguished road
Re: Big WWII Aircraft Instrument Panels and Instruments confiscated

There have already been issues with this in the UK, most particularly with museum collections. I think there are likely to be increasing problems with this area of collecting/dealing etc and especially when it comes to public sale or display or mailing such material through the post.

I am unclear as to the impact in the UK on private collectors, but the Health & Safety at Work Act and the Ionising Radiations Regs 1999 certainly come into play with public exhibitions. Under Section 3 of the HASAW Act there is a duty of care not to expose persons not in ones employment to any harm caused by the duty holders business/activity.

None of this helps you, Liad, and we all wish you well. However, it is not an unknown "problem" in the UK.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11th February 2010, 02:22
chuckschmitz's Avatar
chuckschmitz chuckschmitz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 445
chuckschmitz is on a distinguished road
Re: Big Collection WWII Aircraft Instrument Panels and Instruments confiscated

I bet you can have light bulbs that contain mercury!! I'll do some checking with my son who is US Customs.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11th February 2010, 14:06
Andy Saunders Andy Saunders is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South East England
Posts: 1,353
Andy Saunders is on a distinguished road
Re: Big Collection WWII Aircraft Instrument Panels and Instruments confiscated

There is some interesting discussion going on here about radioactive instruments:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=97884

You may find it worth a look, Liad.

You may also pick up some useful information and contacts to assist you.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11th February 2010, 14:12
SMF144's Avatar
SMF144 SMF144 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yellowknife, NT., Canada
Posts: 378
SMF144
Re: Big Collection WWII Aircraft Instrument Panels and Instruments confiscated

Yes, they are now scanning all packages at customs and even at the borders. Not for antiquities, but for the dirty stuff that could go off with a big bang. 1984 might not be that far off...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net